Appealing twice
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spital_parent
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:37 am
- Location: Spital
Have not read all the posts in this thread - but in case you have not already seen - here is a link to the latest DFCSF (???used to be DFES) school appeals code of practice. Page 44 is about appealing twice
http://www.dfes.gov.uk/sacode/docs/Scho ... 20Code.pdf
you will probably have to cut and paste into the address bar in IE
http://www.dfes.gov.uk/sacode/docs/Scho ... 20Code.pdf
you will probably have to cut and paste into the address bar in IE
Thank you, it was from your link on another thread that I found the document which finally explained to me why my appeal had failed (son didn't pass, school submitted limited info to independent review, my appeal showedson to be of grammar school standard, but panel turned us down because independent review had happened) I don't know how you found the document, because I hadn't come across it before on my internet trawls!
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dissapointed mum
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:05 pm
I will be on the phone to the Grammar school first thing in the morning. I havent heard a sausage this week, and its now really getting me down. I cant face writing another letter, and having more days go by waiting for a reply so Im going to ask for the Head teacher straight away and insist he contact me back before the end of the day if he is busy.In fact if he doesnt I think Ill just go to the school at 3.30 and make sure I get to see him. Is that wise!???
I spoke to my sons form teacher at his current school to ask her if she thinks DS is of Grammar school material. to which she replied most definately. Hes hard working, always has his work in on time, his grades are excellent,, his attitude to learning is excellent (Highest score) He never causes any problems etc etc etc, and said she would definately be happy to write a supporting letter for him to go to the Grammar school.
Hopefully next time I post, I will have some news from the Grammar school!!!
DM
I spoke to my sons form teacher at his current school to ask her if she thinks DS is of Grammar school material. to which she replied most definately. Hes hard working, always has his work in on time, his grades are excellent,, his attitude to learning is excellent (Highest score) He never causes any problems etc etc etc, and said she would definately be happy to write a supporting letter for him to go to the Grammar school.
Hopefully next time I post, I will have some news from the Grammar school!!!
DM
Well good luck today. You are right to take it forwards as soon as you can. I am sorry I can't remember without looking further back in the thread if you have actually written out an application letter and an appeal letter yet and sent them to all the right people?
If not, I would back up your visits today with these two things in writing. Otherwise, if you are not careful, any appeal date that is set up will be next autumn term rather than this term.
I am glad your current teacher confirmed that your son is of grammar school ability. But really there is no doubt about this, as you have told us that he passed the relevant 11+ exam last year.
I think that the school being unhelpful about admissions is making you feel doubtful about things that you should not feel doubtful about.
Good luck.
If not, I would back up your visits today with these two things in writing. Otherwise, if you are not careful, any appeal date that is set up will be next autumn term rather than this term.
I am glad your current teacher confirmed that your son is of grammar school ability. But really there is no doubt about this, as you have told us that he passed the relevant 11+ exam last year.
I think that the school being unhelpful about admissions is making you feel doubtful about things that you should not feel doubtful about.
Good luck.
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dissapointed mum
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:05 pm
Hello all,
Well this is where we arte at:
After not being able to speak to anyone yesterday, I cowardly got my husband to phone the school today, and with the words of contacting our local MP or the government, the receptionist put him through to the admissions lady!
Anyway, she has said due to the nature of the situation, they have had to get legal advise as it will open the doors for all to re-apply which they dont want. My husband said fair enough, but it is on the website with the new legislation, that you can appeal for a new academic year, and that they as a school should be aware of it. She has said yes but they are taking legal advise as to whether its better for the school to make our DS sit a re-test or go for an appeal.!!
I feel its unfair to do a re-test as theres a chance he could have a really bad day, and not do very well or fail it. Then if that happens surley you are entitled to an appeal anyway!!!AAARGGHHH Its driving me potty!
He asked why we havent had a reply from them, to which she replied their legal team havent got back to them yet over the matter, as when she has tried to contact them they have been in court. We now have to wait for them to let us know.
So this is where I am at back in limbo land, wishing time to go by to get an answer.
Till later
Fed up DM
Well this is where we arte at:
After not being able to speak to anyone yesterday, I cowardly got my husband to phone the school today, and with the words of contacting our local MP or the government, the receptionist put him through to the admissions lady!
Anyway, she has said due to the nature of the situation, they have had to get legal advise as it will open the doors for all to re-apply which they dont want. My husband said fair enough, but it is on the website with the new legislation, that you can appeal for a new academic year, and that they as a school should be aware of it. She has said yes but they are taking legal advise as to whether its better for the school to make our DS sit a re-test or go for an appeal.!!
I feel its unfair to do a re-test as theres a chance he could have a really bad day, and not do very well or fail it. Then if that happens surley you are entitled to an appeal anyway!!!AAARGGHHH Its driving me potty!
He asked why we havent had a reply from them, to which she replied their legal team havent got back to them yet over the matter, as when she has tried to contact them they have been in court. We now have to wait for them to let us know.
So this is where I am at back in limbo land, wishing time to go by to get an answer.
Till later
Fed up DM
I can't believe that you haven't got any further forward with this. It must be soooooooo frustrating. It sounds very like the school is stalling - perhaps they hope you'll give up and go away. I think if it was me I would have to take it further at this stage - but really have no idea where.
I hope you manage to get some answers soon.
I hope you manage to get some answers soon.
Sorry Appealing Twice if am being a pain, but without combing back through this v. long thread, I still am not sure if you have applied, and if you have appealed, or who the admissions authority is.
I think you are being fobbed off, and of course they don't want all and sundry re-applying and appealing. It will be their worst nightmare. But it does not stop you doing it, quietly!!
This could happen to all schools, but most people don't know about it, or would not bother to anyway.
I would say that if you don't want to scare them the best thing is to apply and appeal pronto, and press the appeals panel administrator for your appeal date to be within whatever the code says is an acceptable timescale is. Don't bother the MP unless your appeal date is not given to you within the legal timescale.
Of course, you may not get in on appeal, but you should be spending your time on preparing a good appeal case, not having to battle with the school at this stage. In my view it's out of their hands once you have applied to the school and appealed to the independent panel.
It sounds to me as though you are still getting caught up with the blockage - i.e. the school.
Good luck.
I think you are being fobbed off, and of course they don't want all and sundry re-applying and appealing. It will be their worst nightmare. But it does not stop you doing it, quietly!!
This could happen to all schools, but most people don't know about it, or would not bother to anyway.
I would say that if you don't want to scare them the best thing is to apply and appeal pronto, and press the appeals panel administrator for your appeal date to be within whatever the code says is an acceptable timescale is. Don't bother the MP unless your appeal date is not given to you within the legal timescale.
Of course, you may not get in on appeal, but you should be spending your time on preparing a good appeal case, not having to battle with the school at this stage. In my view it's out of their hands once you have applied to the school and appealed to the independent panel.
It sounds to me as though you are still getting caught up with the blockage - i.e. the school.
Good luck.
Have just re-read the thread quickly, and have seen that you have applied to the school.
So I guess you are waiting to hear whether or not they have a place for you before you appeal to the independent panel.
Well, I think it would be safe to say that they want to say they don't have a place (and perhaps they really have not), but they don't want to write that "NO" to you and send you the appeal forms, as they are worried you may well get in on appeal. I think you could justify to the panel that a period of however many days it has now been since applying, and however many days it has been since asking on the phone if the appropriate year group has space and them not saying there is space, to be a "NO".
So you have this delay, stalemate, whatever you like to call it, which they can also genuinely blame on the local authority (LA) legal department, who could of course take forever to give them a bit of advice. And whose advice is better - yours or the school's?
It really is not your duty to wait for the LA interpretation of the code of admissions -what will you do if they interpret it not in your favour and say you can't re-apply? How will you know if the school is telling you exactly what the LA legal department said?
At this stage, wouldn't you just appeal and give it your best shot anyway? In which case, why not just get on with it now, and bypass the argument with the school. It will save them some time. And then if you still do not feel it was fair, go to the ombudsman. Would you want your son to transfer after September? Probably not. The school will know that few people like to make mid-year transfers if they can avoid them, so they are hoping that you will soon go away without making an appeal.
Please spend your time reading the code, and the great advice on this site on appeals against oversubscription, and less time allowing the school to delay you due to the reluctance they have to comply with a code of practice etc that is a real pain for them.
Good luck.
So I guess you are waiting to hear whether or not they have a place for you before you appeal to the independent panel.
Well, I think it would be safe to say that they want to say they don't have a place (and perhaps they really have not), but they don't want to write that "NO" to you and send you the appeal forms, as they are worried you may well get in on appeal. I think you could justify to the panel that a period of however many days it has now been since applying, and however many days it has been since asking on the phone if the appropriate year group has space and them not saying there is space, to be a "NO".
So you have this delay, stalemate, whatever you like to call it, which they can also genuinely blame on the local authority (LA) legal department, who could of course take forever to give them a bit of advice. And whose advice is better - yours or the school's?
It really is not your duty to wait for the LA interpretation of the code of admissions -what will you do if they interpret it not in your favour and say you can't re-apply? How will you know if the school is telling you exactly what the LA legal department said?
At this stage, wouldn't you just appeal and give it your best shot anyway? In which case, why not just get on with it now, and bypass the argument with the school. It will save them some time. And then if you still do not feel it was fair, go to the ombudsman. Would you want your son to transfer after September? Probably not. The school will know that few people like to make mid-year transfers if they can avoid them, so they are hoping that you will soon go away without making an appeal.
Please spend your time reading the code, and the great advice on this site on appeals against oversubscription, and less time allowing the school to delay you due to the reluctance they have to comply with a code of practice etc that is a real pain for them.
Good luck.