Diabetes
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Dear Etienne and Sally-Anne,
Sorry, me again. We have received the clerk’s notes already and they are much more detailed than I was expecting.
The cause of my unease is now much clearer: the 2 members of the panel who refused the appeal have both cited DD’s CATs scores as the main reason for their refusal (the panel member who allowed the appeal made no mention of CATs), together with the HT’s recommendation (which itself was based on the CATs scores).
So it seems that the appeal has failed almost entirely on the basis of her CATs scores. The clerk’s notes record our point that we felt CATs shouldn’t be the sole indicator, but that appears to be very much what the panel have focused on.
Is this right? Are they entitled to do this? I’d be most interested in your opinion.
There’s quite a few other points, but I don’t want to bore the whole forum – perhaps I could send a PM at some point?
Many thanks.
Sorry, me again. We have received the clerk’s notes already and they are much more detailed than I was expecting.
The cause of my unease is now much clearer: the 2 members of the panel who refused the appeal have both cited DD’s CATs scores as the main reason for their refusal (the panel member who allowed the appeal made no mention of CATs), together with the HT’s recommendation (which itself was based on the CATs scores).
So it seems that the appeal has failed almost entirely on the basis of her CATs scores. The clerk’s notes record our point that we felt CATs shouldn’t be the sole indicator, but that appears to be very much what the panel have focused on.
Is this right? Are they entitled to do this? I’d be most interested in your opinion.
There’s quite a few other points, but I don’t want to bore the whole forum – perhaps I could send a PM at some point?
Many thanks.
Dear Rob
Although guidance is given to headteachers about their role in the process, panel members are completely "unfettered". They must consider all the evidence, but it is up to them what they attach weight to. I'm not saying that I agree with the focus on CATs, but I have no doubt it was a judgement they were entitled to make.
Please PM me if I can be of any further help.
Although guidance is given to headteachers about their role in the process, panel members are completely "unfettered". They must consider all the evidence, but it is up to them what they attach weight to. I'm not saying that I agree with the focus on CATs, but I have no doubt it was a judgement they were entitled to make.
Please PM me if I can be of any further help.
Etienne
I was afraid of that! So we’re now caught in a vicious circle started by the HT’s refusal to adhere to the LEA guidelines in the first place. Great.
Playing devil’s advocate, I do wonder whether the appeal result might have been different if DD had never done CATs. In that case they would have seen a child with level 5 SATs predictions (already level 5 in some subjects), a reading age 3 years ahead of actual age, good schoolbooks and strong mitigating circumstances.
The fairness of concentrating on one particular type of exam which large numbers of children don’t even take is an interesting scenario, then. Has this ever been tested in law, to your knowledge?
Playing devil’s advocate, I do wonder whether the appeal result might have been different if DD had never done CATs. In that case they would have seen a child with level 5 SATs predictions (already level 5 in some subjects), a reading age 3 years ahead of actual age, good schoolbooks and strong mitigating circumstances.
The fairness of concentrating on one particular type of exam which large numbers of children don’t even take is an interesting scenario, then. Has this ever been tested in law, to your knowledge?
Rob
I'm not aware of any legal precedent, but I'd be very surprised if this line of argument were to get anywhere.
It seems to me it's a fundamental principle that an appeal panel must be free to consider whatever evidence is presented. There will always be some appeals that are swayed because of an EP report, for example, or a gold certificate in the primary schools' Maths Challenge. There cannot be a level playing field where evidence is concerned.
You might be on stronger ground in querying whether BCC's own procedures were followed, and whether the appeal panel failed to consider this issue.
There were two points that concerned you, if I remember correctly: the use of CATs and a position in the year group.
The headteachers' manual cautions against the use of CATs in arriving at a recommendation, but it doesn't explicitly prohibit them. I do think it unwise for a school to focus entirely on CATs, and I don't think they should be doing it, but it might be something of a grey area.
The main reason for getting rid of rankings was the risk that other children might be identified, in breach of the Data Protection Act. Clearly, the possible identification of other children was not a problem here. However, giving your daughter a position in the year seems contrary to the spirit of the new system, and you might be on stronger ground here in that the panel were given in isolation what looks at first sight like a lowish position. Under the old system it would have appeared as part of a ranked list, and could have been seen in context.
I'm not aware of any legal precedent, but I'd be very surprised if this line of argument were to get anywhere.
It seems to me it's a fundamental principle that an appeal panel must be free to consider whatever evidence is presented. There will always be some appeals that are swayed because of an EP report, for example, or a gold certificate in the primary schools' Maths Challenge. There cannot be a level playing field where evidence is concerned.
You might be on stronger ground in querying whether BCC's own procedures were followed, and whether the appeal panel failed to consider this issue.
There were two points that concerned you, if I remember correctly: the use of CATs and a position in the year group.
The headteachers' manual cautions against the use of CATs in arriving at a recommendation, but it doesn't explicitly prohibit them. I do think it unwise for a school to focus entirely on CATs, and I don't think they should be doing it, but it might be something of a grey area.
The main reason for getting rid of rankings was the risk that other children might be identified, in breach of the Data Protection Act. Clearly, the possible identification of other children was not a problem here. However, giving your daughter a position in the year seems contrary to the spirit of the new system, and you might be on stronger ground here in that the panel were given in isolation what looks at first sight like a lowish position. Under the old system it would have appeared as part of a ranked list, and could have been seen in context.
Etienne
Thanks Etienne. I was just asking the question, really, out of academic interest rather than intent 
My main concern is that the panel seem to have accepted that DD's diabetes would have had an effect on her scores, but have suggested that it couldn't account for the totality of the shortfall.
IMHO, this is a medical opinion rather than an academic one, and consequently involves a judgment call which an education panel is not qualified to make. Indeed, the medical abstracts with which we provided them would seem to indicate that the panel is factually incorrect in this assessment.
But I just need to mull it all over for a few more days and re-read all the notes before I can put my thoughts in order.
As ever, thanks for the advice and support.
My main concern is that the panel seem to have accepted that DD's diabetes would have had an effect on her scores, but have suggested that it couldn't account for the totality of the shortfall.
IMHO, this is a medical opinion rather than an academic one, and consequently involves a judgment call which an education panel is not qualified to make. Indeed, the medical abstracts with which we provided them would seem to indicate that the panel is factually incorrect in this assessment.
But I just need to mull it all over for a few more days and re-read all the notes before I can put my thoughts in order.
As ever, thanks for the advice and support.
I sympathise, Rob, but no, the panel are not meant to be experts. They're more like a jury. They make judgements like this all the time. Even if the panel did consist of medical experts, they couldn't be absolutely certain how many marks' allowance should be made for such-and-such a condition.this is a medical opinion rather than an academic one, and consequently involves a judgment call which an education panel is not qualified to make.
Etienne
‘They're more like a jury.’
Not really. Juries are required to weigh up all the evidence and decide on the balance of probabilities. An appeal panel, it seems, is free to consider only the bits of evidence they want to consider and ignore the rest.
More like a kangaroo court
‘they couldn't be absolutely certain how many marks' allowance should be made for such-and-such a condition.’
That’s a fair point, Etienne, but turn it around and ask how can the panel decide that the medical condition could definitely NOT account for the shortfall? The only medical paper I could find which has put specific figures on it, has found a 9.5% drop in IQ and cognitive function during an episode of hyperglycaemia. A 9.5% uptake in DD’s CAT scores would paint a very different picture of her academic performance – and incidentally would have seen her pass the 11+ comfortably (based on her standardised scores).
How then can the panel chair say: “Even allowing for the diabetes, [DD’s] scores are far below those generally associated with grammar candidates.â€
Not really. Juries are required to weigh up all the evidence and decide on the balance of probabilities. An appeal panel, it seems, is free to consider only the bits of evidence they want to consider and ignore the rest.
More like a kangaroo court
‘they couldn't be absolutely certain how many marks' allowance should be made for such-and-such a condition.’
That’s a fair point, Etienne, but turn it around and ask how can the panel decide that the medical condition could definitely NOT account for the shortfall? The only medical paper I could find which has put specific figures on it, has found a 9.5% drop in IQ and cognitive function during an episode of hyperglycaemia. A 9.5% uptake in DD’s CAT scores would paint a very different picture of her academic performance – and incidentally would have seen her pass the 11+ comfortably (based on her standardised scores).
How then can the panel chair say: “Even allowing for the diabetes, [DD’s] scores are far below those generally associated with grammar candidates.â€
Rob, I agree with the first part!Juries are required to weigh up all the evidence and decide on the balance of probabilities. An appeal panel, it seems, is free to consider only the bits of evidence they want to consider and ignore the rest.
But not the second .....
An appeal panel should consider all the evidence.
If you were to complain to the ombudsman, he would look to see whether all the key points received attention at some stage in the hearing. This is unlikely to be shown in the notes of the decision-making, because the notes are not intended to be verbatim, and are unlikely to record what each panel member thought of every single point raised. However, whether your key points received attention could be demonstrated by the type of questions asked by panel members, for example, or by what was said in the chair's summing up (after you left the room).
That's an interesting and important argument. Did you put that specific piece of evidence, properly documented, to the panel? If so, I would have expected the clerk's notes to show that it received serious consideration at some point.The only medical paper I could find which has put specific figures on it, has found a 9.5% drop in IQ and cognitive function during an episode of hyperglycaemia. A 9.5% uptake in DD’s CAT scores would paint a very different picture of her academic performance – and incidentally would have seen her pass the 11+ comfortably (based on her standardised scores).
The ombudsman usually takes the view that he can deal with a procedural error so serious as to cause an injustice, but cannot question the panel's judgement, so your only recourse would then be judicial review. I'm guessing that you would have to show that the panel's decisions were outside the range of reasonable responses - irrational, perverse. This is where you might draw attention to the chair's comment, and your contention thathow can the panel decide that the medical condition could definitely NOT account for the shortfall?
IMHO we need to separate out two points:it is an opinion which what little evidence there is clearly does not support.
a. What you think of the system, and
b. How you deal with the situation as it is.
I think I've probably gone as far as I usefully can with the first point.
Please do let me know if I can be of any further help with the second.
Etienne