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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:53 am
Posts: 2
Hello,

I am new to this site and just trying to get my head around the whole grammar school thing so please forgive any ignorance on the subject and also the lengthy post!

I am a mother to three and we are currently preparing to move away from London to the North Cotswolds. From my understanding this would put us in the south catchment for the above three grammar schools.

My children are Y4, Y2 and the youngest will start reception in September. They are all summer born (the youngest is right at the end of August).

My question (or more of a request really) to everyone with offers (from any year) is if you'd be so kind as to let me know the month your DC was born. Their score would be useful too but if you'd prefer not to then I understand. I'm just trying to work out statistically if they have just as much of a chance as their older peers.

I know there's more to this than just age but it would be really interesting to see if there is some correlation between age and success in the 11+.

I think academically DD (Y4) and DS (Y2) are capable (although, tbh, my eldest is probably more borderline) so any general thoughts on the actual schools would be interesting too. KES seems tiny so competition to get in must be huge!

Anyway, thank you for reading and taking the time to post. It's a long road ahead and I'm panicking that time is already running out for my eldest...

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 8046
Location: Essex
Zephy wrote:
Hello,

I am new to this site and just trying to get my head around the whole grammar school thing so please forgive any ignorance on the subject and also the lengthy post!

I am a mother to three and we are currently preparing to move away from London to the North Cotswolds. From my understanding this would put us in the south catchment for the above three grammar schools.

My children are Y4, Y2 and the youngest will start reception in September. They are all summer born (the youngest is right at the end of August).

My question (or more of a request really) to everyone with offers (from any year) is if you'd be so kind as to let me know the month your DC was born. Their score would be useful too but if you'd prefer not to then I understand. I'm just trying to work out statistically if they have just as much of a chance as their older peers.

I know there's more to this than just age but it would be really interesting to see if there is some correlation between age and success in the 11+.

I think academically DD (Y4) and DS (Y2) are capable (although, tbh, my eldest is probably more borderline) so any general thoughts on the actual schools would be interesting too. KES seems tiny so competition to get in must be huge!

Anyway, thank you for reading and taking the time to post. It's a long road ahead and I'm panicking that time is already running out for my eldest...

Thanks again!


Hello :)

Not in your area, but in our local and at the time non age standardised 11+, our DC did follows (pass = 303):

June birthday, 2008 entry: >340 (A level 5 A grades)
September birthday, 2012 entry: 290. (GCSEs 4A*/equivalent, 6A/equivalent. Admits probably did something very silly with one of the 11+ papers, which unfortunately was worth 50% of the total marks :shock: ).
October birthday, 2014 entry: 378, currently year 10.

Age standardisation, which is employed in the Birmingham / Warks 11+, compares those of the same age with each other, so if the mean raw score for the August born is lower than the mean of the September born, a given raw score achieved by the August born will normally result in a higher standardised score than the same raw score achieved by the September born. The relative proportions of each month's birthdays on a given standardised score should more or less represent the promotions in the cohort as a whole.

Btw, standardised scores tell you where you are on the distribution curve of those with whom you are being compared; they are not, despite the persistent misconception of some, 'out of' the maximum standardised score in the population under comparison.

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:19 pm
Posts: 80
Hi Zephy and welcome,
Much is written about the 11+ and age in the year but I think it is as much about the individual child, their motivation and personality. I have 2 DDs and can only give you my experience. I do think the maturity of the individuals make a difference, but I am not sure there is a consistent link between maturity and age, one child in DD2's class has got the same birthday as her but a very different maturity level.
DD1, currently year 9 at SGGS. September born, took the 11+ when almost 11. Got 221 and comfortably got into SGGS.
DD2, starting SGGS in September 2018. June born so 10 years and 3 months when she took the 11+. Scored 242. On top of her younger age, DD2 had a worse primary school experience due to things happening at her primary school during the last 3 years of her schooling there.
If you have any questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to answer.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 4933
Alternatively, move close to Chipping Campden school which is absolutely outstanding, with an excellent catchment cohort (expensive houses in the area, partly because the school is so good). It's coed and, if you make sure you are in catchment - and close - you are guaranteed a place with no stress of 11+. We have lots of friends there and many of them positively opted for it in preference to the grammar schools.

I have two boys at KES so if you have specific questions I am happy to answer - but, yes, competition for places there is intense as they have such a small PAN - and there is no sibling criteria for admission to any of these Grammar Schools (i.e., if your older child gets a place this gives no advantage to your subsequent children....unlike CC school.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:30 pm
Posts: 6
Hi
I have one at SGGS who is born in late June and one going to KES who is also late June born. I personally don't believe when the child is born makes a difference as to their success rate for the 11+. I know a range of parents who have placed their children at Alcester Academy if the child does not take the 11+ as they feed Alcester Grammar for A-levels. Hope that this helps.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:49 am 
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There are no feeder schools for the GS. Not even for 6th Form, so these parents are mistaken. There are minimum entry requirements into the 6th form and AGS's are lower than KES and SGGS, so it is, arguably, easier to get a place there for 6th form than the two Stratford based school's - their last score/rank in, on entry at 11+, tends to be lower too.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:38 am
Posts: 1349
Location: West Midlands / warks border
I really don't think the child's month of birth has much bearing on scores.

Here are some scores and birth months

229 - April (this year)
237 - November
237 - November
238 - September
246 - February
258 - August

As you can see the highest score is the youngest child!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 8046
Location: Essex
nervousmom wrote:
I really don't think the child's month of birth has much bearing on scores.

Here are some scores and birth months

229 - April (this year)
237 - November
237 - November
238 - September
246 - February
258 - August

As you can see the highest score is the youngest child!


And just for clarity, that score will have nothing to do with being 'given lots of extra points because they are the youngest'; it will be because that candidate's raw score will have been nearly two standard deviations above the mean (assuming an assigned mean of 100 for each paper / 200 for the two papers if considered together) when compared with those of a similar age.

Which may be slightly lower than, exactly the same as or even slightly more than the raw score of a September / December / April born candidate in the same placing with regard to the mean for their 'band'. It doesn't matter, because it is the standardised score that one's ranking is based on.

Whether parents of DC born in particular months of the year actually enter them for the 11+, is another matter. I'm not sure why one would suddenly think, 'we won't bother, your birthday's in July so you are bound to be at a disadvantage', when the evidence before them thus is that their July born DC has consistently been top in their (non age standardised) class work? Being realistic about the possibility that even 'top table' in your particular school may not be anywhere near 'top table' standard in so many other schools whose pupils will be sitting the 11+ that your perfectly capable DC might not make the cut due to statistics, is another matter, of course.

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:53 am
Posts: 2
Thanks everybody for your warm welcome!

This is all really fascinating and congratulations to all your DCs who sound like they have done / are doing incredibly well.

Thanks also for the explanation of standardisation -- I confess it's something I'd read about but didn't fully understand! (It still sounds a little confusing to a novice but I intend to read more about this...)

Very interesting to hear such praise for Chipping Campden school -- we will be just outside CC so it's reassuring to know it's so highly regarded by parents. I've always preferred the idea of single sex for secondary but I know I might have to be realistic.

My children currently attend a London state school (rated outstanding) which I can't fault at all and they are both doing very well there but there is no mention at all (or encouragement) of the option of grammar schools so all the prep will be undertaken by myself. Eek!

Can I ask how you all covered this? Did your schools help? Private tutor? Or did you just arm yourselves with a truckload of CGP books (as I have) and plough on yourselves?

Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:38 am
Posts: 1349
Location: West Midlands / warks border
Both my DS & DD attended a state run faith school.
The school make no mention whatsoever of GS, even for bright kids like mine (they basically want them to go to the state feeder faith school)
The only reason we knew of GS and process was other family members who had already under gone the process.
Both of mine were tutored by a local 11+ comkany, which they started in year 4. DS 2 will start September this year.
We looked at KES for DS1, although he scored high enough for it, he wanted a co-ed school (AGS falls in this bracket) but he wanted KEFW (one of the Birmingham grammar schools), which is where he and DD1 both attend.
As already said, no help or encouragement was received from their primary school.


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