Pass mark for Warwickshire?
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Charlotte67
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Invaluable info fm & KenR. Thank you!
A huge sigh of relief that the comprehension is likely to be multiple choice - the marking issue had never occurred to me. Comprehension is the main worry I have for my son; I imagined he would take so long thinking of how to put his answer into words that he'd only get through a couple of questions!
Thanks for asking the question Jacquie.
A huge sigh of relief that the comprehension is likely to be multiple choice - the marking issue had never occurred to me. Comprehension is the main worry I have for my son; I imagined he would take so long thinking of how to put his answer into words that he'd only get through a couple of questions!
Thanks for asking the question Jacquie.
Hi everyone!
It is of great relief to hear that the comprehension could be in the form of mulitple choice!
To what level are they expected to be learning maths to? If they're only expected to need to achieve around 60% is this because of the difficulty or the amount of areas maths covers?! I say only 60%, this would be a wonderful result for us at the minute, my son is getting confused by the amount of different things that can be done with a fraction!!
It is of great relief to hear that the comprehension could be in the form of mulitple choice!
To what level are they expected to be learning maths to? If they're only expected to need to achieve around 60% is this because of the difficulty or the amount of areas maths covers?! I say only 60%, this would be a wonderful result for us at the minute, my son is getting confused by the amount of different things that can be done with a fraction!!
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fm
Level of difficulty and time pressure, I would say. Your test, however, may be different from the KE test. I am only referring to the KE test and the fact that 90% is not expected due to the nature of the test although I am sure a few have attained this.
To quote Kenr when my daughter was convinced she'd messed up (which I still suspect she did in the maths problem section), the year his son did the KE test a mark of 46/82 ( 56%) yielded a standardised score of 116 for his son's age (I think he was mid-year). Compare that to last year's maths section for Sutton Coldfield Girls' (a traditional NFER test) where a mark of 45/50 (90%) gave one of my pupils a standardised score of 116. You can see the vast difference.
My own daughter could manage NFER maths very well and actually scored 48/50 in the Sutton exam which went along the lines of the maths tests commercially available only possibly slightly easier. The KE maths problems weren't, however, two or three line problems. Some were quite wordy and divided into 3 parts.
As to how much fraction work you'd do, while I do cover multiplication and division few of my pupils ever remember it and so far no one has suggested you actually need it. Do remember they insist these tests don't go beyond Key Stage 2.
The two questions my daughter remembered were not beyond key stage 2 in theory but were the harder application of Key Stage 2.
a) if 2/3 of a number is 24, what is 3/4 of the same number
and
b) An ipod with sales tax of 20% added on, costs £126, what is the price before sales tax.
Neither is beyond KS2 but both require thought rather than straightforward arithmetic.
Another favourite is putting in a distance mileage chart like you'd get in front of a road atlas. Magic squares have also features in the past.
Basically anything that proves the child can think a bit deeper about things.
The mental arithmetic test was more about speed, an agility with numbers and an understanding of fractions, decimals and percentages. A child with a good sense of the latter, would be able to order 25%, 1/3, 6/7 and 0.6 without resorting to changing them to the same thing.
They are looking for children with a flair for numbers rather than advanced knowledge, I believe.
To quote Kenr when my daughter was convinced she'd messed up (which I still suspect she did in the maths problem section), the year his son did the KE test a mark of 46/82 ( 56%) yielded a standardised score of 116 for his son's age (I think he was mid-year). Compare that to last year's maths section for Sutton Coldfield Girls' (a traditional NFER test) where a mark of 45/50 (90%) gave one of my pupils a standardised score of 116. You can see the vast difference.
My own daughter could manage NFER maths very well and actually scored 48/50 in the Sutton exam which went along the lines of the maths tests commercially available only possibly slightly easier. The KE maths problems weren't, however, two or three line problems. Some were quite wordy and divided into 3 parts.
As to how much fraction work you'd do, while I do cover multiplication and division few of my pupils ever remember it and so far no one has suggested you actually need it. Do remember they insist these tests don't go beyond Key Stage 2.
The two questions my daughter remembered were not beyond key stage 2 in theory but were the harder application of Key Stage 2.
a) if 2/3 of a number is 24, what is 3/4 of the same number
and
b) An ipod with sales tax of 20% added on, costs £126, what is the price before sales tax.
Neither is beyond KS2 but both require thought rather than straightforward arithmetic.
Another favourite is putting in a distance mileage chart like you'd get in front of a road atlas. Magic squares have also features in the past.
Basically anything that proves the child can think a bit deeper about things.
The mental arithmetic test was more about speed, an agility with numbers and an understanding of fractions, decimals and percentages. A child with a good sense of the latter, would be able to order 25%, 1/3, 6/7 and 0.6 without resorting to changing them to the same thing.
They are looking for children with a flair for numbers rather than advanced knowledge, I believe.
Hi All
fm is correct regarding the raw scores except that they weren't for the Nov 2006 exam (when my son sat the test) but for 2 year earlier Nov 2004. I think this was the 1st year that the Univ of Durham set the KE Foundation 11+ papers.
If you ask for the scores (which I did for my son because he didn't get his then 1st choice KE Grammar at the time) they only give you the Standardised scores for each section (VR, NVR and Numerical) not the raw scores.
The reason I know the raw and standardised scores for 2004 is because I wrote to the KE Foundation under the Freedom of Information Act and they supplied the raw to Standardised conversion tables for that year.
I did note the raw to Standardised conversion figures at the approximate pass mark for a child of my sons age (end Dec).
For Maths/Numerical 44/82=114 & 46/82=116
For Verbal 64/100=114 & 67/100=116
For NVR 50/70=114 & 52/70=116
jacquie, you may want to write to Warwick LEA and request the conversion tables under the FOI later in the year!
Incidently, I no longer have the tables as I gave them to the head of my son's school at the time as he was interested.
Hope this helps
best of luck
fm is correct regarding the raw scores except that they weren't for the Nov 2006 exam (when my son sat the test) but for 2 year earlier Nov 2004. I think this was the 1st year that the Univ of Durham set the KE Foundation 11+ papers.
If you ask for the scores (which I did for my son because he didn't get his then 1st choice KE Grammar at the time) they only give you the Standardised scores for each section (VR, NVR and Numerical) not the raw scores.
The reason I know the raw and standardised scores for 2004 is because I wrote to the KE Foundation under the Freedom of Information Act and they supplied the raw to Standardised conversion tables for that year.
I did note the raw to Standardised conversion figures at the approximate pass mark for a child of my sons age (end Dec).
For Maths/Numerical 44/82=114 & 46/82=116
For Verbal 64/100=114 & 67/100=116
For NVR 50/70=114 & 52/70=116
jacquie, you may want to write to Warwick LEA and request the conversion tables under the FOI later in the year!
Incidently, I no longer have the tables as I gave them to the head of my son's school at the time as he was interested.
Hope this helps
best of luck
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fm
Sorry, Ken. Forgot exactly what you'd written. Someone actually told me their child's scores, raw and standardised, for this year but I have misplaced them.
I think you'll agree with the general point, however, that the raw scores are much lower for this style of exam than a conventional 11 plus test. My Sutton children who scored 36/40 (90%) in non-verbal ended up with 116 standardised, again quite different to the KE figures.
I wonder if the raw scores have gone up much since 2004 now people know what is in the exam. That would interesting to check.
I think you'll agree with the general point, however, that the raw scores are much lower for this style of exam than a conventional 11 plus test. My Sutton children who scored 36/40 (90%) in non-verbal ended up with 116 standardised, again quite different to the KE figures.
I wonder if the raw scores have gone up much since 2004 now people know what is in the exam. That would interesting to check.
Hi fm
Certainly agree that the scores are very much lower for this type of test.
It's quite important that candidates understand that they can miss out quite a lot of questions in this particular type of exam and still pass easily.
I wouldn't be surprised if the scores have gone up a little since the 1st test. That particular test caused a huge stir at the time - this was the test where they played them a comprehension tape during the first exam paper but then the 2nd paper asked them comprehension questions quite a while later. Many children were absolutely frantic that they had forgotten what was said in the earlier tape - many parents complained. Don't think they have done it that way again.
Regards
Certainly agree that the scores are very much lower for this type of test.
It's quite important that candidates understand that they can miss out quite a lot of questions in this particular type of exam and still pass easily.
I wouldn't be surprised if the scores have gone up a little since the 1st test. That particular test caused a huge stir at the time - this was the test where they played them a comprehension tape during the first exam paper but then the 2nd paper asked them comprehension questions quite a while later. Many children were absolutely frantic that they had forgotten what was said in the earlier tape - many parents complained. Don't think they have done it that way again.
Regards
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fm
pass mark for warwickshire
The position with KES and stratford grammar and the pass mark required seems to be further complicated by the decision of the Schools Adjudicator when they both applied some years ago to expand their intake.
If you put "schools adjudicator into Google it is easy to find the actual decision reached for each school.
When each school applied to increase their intake from 2 forms to 3, the head teachers at surrounding schools objected. The head at shipston school asserted that the brightest pupils would all be lost to chipping campden and the head of chipping campden said he would lose all his bright pupils to shottery and KES (perhaps they should both have asked themselves why but that is another story!)
The conclusion reached by the schools adjudicator, therefore, was that the pass mark for Kes and shottery should never be lower than an average of the 2002 /2003 pass mark just before they expanded which explains how they could in theory have spare places each year.
If you put "schools adjudicator into Google it is easy to find the actual decision reached for each school.
When each school applied to increase their intake from 2 forms to 3, the head teachers at surrounding schools objected. The head at shipston school asserted that the brightest pupils would all be lost to chipping campden and the head of chipping campden said he would lose all his bright pupils to shottery and KES (perhaps they should both have asked themselves why but that is another story!)
The conclusion reached by the schools adjudicator, therefore, was that the pass mark for Kes and shottery should never be lower than an average of the 2002 /2003 pass mark just before they expanded which explains how they could in theory have spare places each year.
Thanks for that magwich - interesting. Has anyone any idea which usually requires the higher mark - AGS or KES? AGS is our preference. Ironically (given magwich's post) we are also keen on Chipping Campden, but are not guaranteed a place as we are not quite close enough, where as we could be certain of a place at KES in the event of a good enough score. But I was thinking there would be no point putting KES second if it is harder to get a place there than Alcester. Anyone know?