Generation Gifted

Discussion of all things non-11 Plus related

Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators

11 Plus Platform - Online Practice Makes Perfect - Try Now
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by mystery »

Surferfish wrote:
ToadMum wrote:Okay, I know I ought not to comment until I've got round to watching the programme, but with regard to the boy whose ambitions 'only' extend to becoming a chef - it's great if he would really, really prefer to do medicine and has the ability and aptitude for it and is only being held back by a lack of self-belief, but please don't let him be being directed towards medicine just 'because he's clever', if his ambitions and talents actually do lie elsewhere. Even in a kitchen.
I agree ToadMum. The boy said he was interested in how science related to food. So I would have thought that as an alternative to "just" being a chef he might have been made aware of degrees in food science and technology, biochemical engineering or something similar that he might be able to pursue. But instead his well meaning teacher seemed to want to directed him towards a degree in medicine, reinforcing the stereotype that being a medical doctor is the pinnacle of professions that any academically able child should aspire to.
Maybe that teacher did not have the knowledge to think up even one career relating to science and food --- but there's nothing wrong with wishing to be a chef so maybe even if he had suggested something we think might have been more appropriate than medicine - e.g. an NHS dietician, it could to the boy have sounded as though his dream was being rubbished - and who knows, he might be the next Prue Leith. One of my children wants to run a cafe. Don't think she has a clue what it would be like in reality but it's a nice dream while it lasts and who knows, it might lead her to doing a job she loves -- she's never happier than cooking and baking. Getting a first class degree from a top uni in something you're perfectly well capable of does not always lead to a career in something you love doing -- and we spend a lot of time working.

There've surely got to be some good websites where teens can plug in their interests, desires, skills and out pops some ideas. Or is this kind of stuff still exorbitantly expensive and in the hands of private careers advisers etc at £x,ooo a throw?

Maybe some would benefit from joining the Student Room and chatting online with some other students about possible careers etc. Maybe there's a gap for adults who are in work somehow offering an insight into their work online? Could be way more useful than the average careers fair.
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by mystery »

kenyancowgirl wrote:I think the Connexions Service was incredible...mind you, I did run one.

The point was they were fully independent of all education institutions but worked within them (so any child in school would have had multiple connections with them in groupwork and/or individual interviews). More important was the work the service did with the NEET, generally very successfully-and the majority of these are from seriously disadvantaged families.
How long ago was the plug pulled? Guess it was years ago. How depressing. Do you think the gap has been filled successfully?
loobylou
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:04 pm

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by loobylou »

mystery wrote:Well I'm glad that the majority of schools have a good stab at it then. Why isn't the school which made Amber think of helping making a better fist of it then?
I think they were genuinely trying. They took students to see a university and to talk to people there about what university meant etc - from an environment where no one came from university educated backgrounds. I wonder whether they may be didn't even consider that people don't know what it costs? The mum initially said to her daughter "I think it will cost over £500" which was more money than clearly they could even think about.
Maybe the school felt that sowing the seed in year 9 was the important thing - clearly they will now be aware that even at this age it's important to make people understand that, for some children for whom university will be a very useful route, the investment will pay for itself.
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Yes a good few years ago...I left before they made that decision as the govt targets were becoming ridiculous....Some schools have still employed CAs in school so that makes it free/cheaper for parents. Some CAs have chosen to go private - maybe because having spent a lot of money on getting professionally trained, and having bills to pay, they have had to do something when the govt pulled the rug out from under the service with no warning. I chose to leave the service but, most of us predicted that once the service was gone, people in the know would realise what a crying shame it was.

Difficulty with allowing adults to "speak" online to school children even if it is about work, can be difficult to police.

In short, no. The service has not been replaced adequately and there are now too many people with scant knowledge "helping" young people make decisions about their future...personally I have had to pick up the pieces for a few friend's kids who were advised incorrectly about A levels or options with the grades they were predicted, which is horrid. It also means in families with pushy parents the kids have no one independent to bat for them and in families with no interest or ambition they equally have no one.
RedPanda
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:56 am

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by RedPanda »

mystery wrote:Well I'm glad that the majority of schools have a good stab at it then.
Stab is a great word. No substitute for something better like Connexions. Never did like the spelling though :)
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Neither did we....!!!
mystery
Posts: 8927
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:56 pm

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by mystery »

Whether or not university pays itself off in the long-run could be a really good practical maths/PHSE question for GCSE students. I am not sure the answer is that clear-cut now that graduate type jobs and salaries are not that easy to come by - but I suppose the debt write-off rules compensate for this.

I think these days there is a big decision to be made as to whether or not a degree is the best route or not -- whereas in my mother's day when few did degrees and it was totally free in every way to her from a poor background it was a no-brainer. However, she did have the offer of a good career path with the Civil Service at 18 and always wondered if that might have been a better option. One just never knows.

Degree apprenticeships sound like a good thing.

At the end of the day, one can only provide the best info available and help the person have some insight into their own interests, motivations, strengths, weaknesses etc etc? I just find it baffling that, depsite the world being at our fingertips online, this kind of information and approach for teens is more out of reach than ever.
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by Amber »

I do think that the teachers are getting a bit of a rough press on this thread. The teacher who took the boy to look at medical school was neither pushing nor steering, nor did he attempt to rubbish the boy's ambitions to be a chef. He was trying to show him other possibilities, and he was fabulous in my view. Anne-Marie's teachers were well aware of her anxieties and talents, and were also trying to help the talented children at the school.

But look, there is a chronic lack of cultural capital, and of targeted aspiration, as well as actual money, in all these stories. Trying to reframe this as rubbish teachers or tired 'go into medicine then' stereotypes doesn't actually work on this small subset of children from backgrounds far, far removed from anyone reading this post. It is very important and clever television, and should spark a proper debate about deprivation. Sadly, the signs are that it won't, and even if these remarkable young people do buck the trend and succeed in leaving behind the low aspirations of their communities, I already sense that they will be lauded, Oprah style, as succeeding against the odds, triumphing in adversity etc, rather than flagging the systemic and cultural change which is so badly needed.
solimum
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 3:09 pm
Location: Solihull, West Midlands

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by solimum »

One possible way for those on here to channel that urge to help might be to ask your local comprehensive/ Secondary modern if they have any scheme for mock interviews/ careers mentoring . My OH has done this a couple of times now at the school where I work as an LSA (and where incidentally I also spend time trying that delicate balance of encouragement and managing expectations, often with pupils whose academic gifts are less obvious...). He has found it very rewarding - so far it's mainly been with the Year 11s who are encouraged to write a CV and talk about what their plans are post GCSEs with an unfamiliar adult, as a combination of interview practice and widening of horizons. (The school help match the pupils to the backgrounds of the volunteers).
exam2019
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:14 pm

Re: Generation Gifted

Post by exam2019 »

Episode 1 is on again tonight BBC2 at 23.15 so I've set up a timer record for that and Episode 2.

I managed to miss bits of the episodes when I watched them first time around - when are the follow up episodes?
Do we have to wait until next year?! Not sure I can wait that long.....
Post Reply
11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now