For Europeans concerned by Brexit

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Loopyloulou
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:20 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Loopyloulou »

Ultimately the only reason flights might stop would be because the EU refuses to allow them to continue. Ultimately the only reason they would do that is to punish us for leaving.
With friends like that who needs enemies?
Loopy
mike1880
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by mike1880 »

+1. But it probably won't come to that. Project Fear is still working overtime, but now it's being directed at those who are dubious about Chequers (i.e. almost everyone for one reason or another). It just makes me contrary and obstinate. If it wasn't for Project Fear I'd probably be a remainer :lol:
Stimela
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Stimela »

anotherdad wrote:Reduces carbon dioxide emissions?

Going off topic a bit but after being continually told (justifiably) for years that we have to do something about CO2 emissions, it astonishes me that we're expanding Heathrow and that it's considered good news whenever there's a rise in air freight and travel.
Quite right. Heathrow Expansion, the EU £39bn Ransom demand, Trident and HS2. All a criminal waste of money and if we abandoned them, the Brexit dividend would indeed be massive. In fact to misquote the line from 'Jaws', ''We're gonna need a bigger bus!''
anotherdad
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by anotherdad »

Stimela wrote:Quite right. Heathrow Expansion, the EU £39bn Ransom demand, Trident and HS2. All a criminal waste of money and if we abandoned them, the Brexit dividend would indeed be massive. In fact to misquote the line from 'Jaws', ''We're gonna need a bigger bus!''
You call it a ransom demand, others would describe it as compensation for reneging on the UK's commitments it willingly entered into over the years. I've no idea whether £39bn is the genuine cost but it seems reasonable to me that there is a price to pay for exit. We would expect another state to pay a penalty sum if it withdrew from, say, a multi-billion pound deal after committing to it.

Trident? Well I wouldn't support spending enormous sums on nuclear weapons but with what looks to be becoming an increasingly unstable world, is now really the right time to be scrapping our deterrent? It's not as if we have conventional armed forces in sufficient quantities to be much of a deterrent. The Navy is a shadow of its former self and has added unreliable Type 45s and an aircraft carrier that is incompatible with its planned aircraft to its fleet.

As for HS2, I can see arguments for and against it. Will it help rebalance the economy away from London to the north, or will it simply make access to London easier from the north and exacerbate the London-centric economy we have? Will it be a white elephant that no one uses or will its construction be a massive source of much-needed jobs and resultant tax revenue for the exchequer?

Whatever the rights and wrongs of all of these, I think even the most ardent supporter of Brexit must concede that the "Brexit dividend" was and is a myth. Even if there is to be a long-term fiscal benefit it will probably be many years, possibly decades until it materialises. Even Rees-Mogg suggests that and he's moving his own investments overseas to weather the storm. I cannot see how abandoning Trident, Heathrow and HS2 would be anything to do with a "Brexit dividend" anyway? The EU didn't force us to commit to them. You cannot simply ascribe any future savings or windfalls to Brexit to try and balance the books. No one believes £350m extra will be heading into the NHS every week as a result of Brexit. There is no dividend. We'll just be glad if Raab's promises of "adequate food" are kept.
Stimela
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Stimela »

anotherdad wrote:You call it a ransom demand, others would describe it as compensation for reneging on the UK's commitments it willingly entered into over the years. I've no idea whether £39bn is the genuine cost but it seems reasonable to me that there is a price to pay for exit. We would expect another state to pay a penalty sum if it withdrew from, say, a multi-billion pound deal after committing to it.

Trident? Well I wouldn't support spending enormous sums on nuclear weapons but with what looks to be becoming an increasingly unstable world, is now really the right time to be scrapping our deterrent? It's not as if we have conventional armed forces in sufficient quantities to be much of a deterrent. The Navy is a shadow of its former self and has added unreliable Type 45s and an aircraft carrier that is incompatible with its planned aircraft to its fleet.

As for HS2, I can see arguments for and against it. Will it help rebalance the economy away from London to the north, or will it simply make access to London easier from the north and exacerbate the London-centric economy we have? Will it be a white elephant that no one uses or will its construction be a massive source of much-needed jobs and resultant tax revenue for the exchequer?

Whatever the rights and wrongs of all of these, I think even the most ardent supporter of Brexit must concede that the "Brexit dividend" was and is a myth. Even if there is to be a long-term fiscal benefit it will probably be many years, possibly decades until it materialises. Even Rees-Mogg suggests that and he's moving his own investments overseas to weather the storm. I cannot see how abandoning Trident, Heathrow and HS2 would be anything to do with a "Brexit dividend" anyway? The EU didn't force us to commit to them. You cannot simply ascribe any future savings or windfalls to Brexit to try and balance the books. No one believes £350m extra will be heading into the NHS every week as a result of Brexit. There is no dividend. We'll just be glad if Raab's promises of "adequate food" are kept.
Oh dear. And for a minute there I thought we might get on a roll.

So let me see if I understand your position; you don't know if £39bn is the correct figure we should be paying the EU but you think we should pay it anyway (Gosh, with a hard nosed stance like that it's a real shame you weren't involved in the negotiations). This is despite the fact that both a House of Lords committee and a top Legal firm said there was no obligation to pay them anything. Added to that we have paid in massive contributions since we joined, receiving comparatively little back in return.

Presumably then you have followed Barnier's direction, that 'we must settle our bar tab.' I only hope when I stop frequenting my local, they don't insist that on top of my bar drinks tab, I contribute towards; the future pensions of all the bar staff; the refurbishment of the bar; the refurbishment of all the other pubs in the group; and the construction of lots of new pubs for the next 4 years. That would be one very expensive round!

On the other matters; you are not sure whether it is worth spending on Trident but you think we should spend it anyway? On HS2 you are not sure whether it is worth spending on that either but you think we should spend it anyway? You know what, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here. I can almost hear Ray Winstone saying ''Bet Naaw''

You conclude by saying that you think we will probably run short of food because of Brexit. So in your world we would have - 'No food but a very fast train and a nuclear umbrella.' I suggest you don't propose this as a campaign slogan for whatever political party you support at the next election.

Come to think of it though, it could well fly in North Korea.
anotherdad
Posts: 1763
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by anotherdad »

Stimela wrote:Oh dear. And for a minute there I thought we might get on a roll.

So let me see if I understand your position; you don't know if £39bn is the correct figure we should be paying the EU but you think we should pay it anyway (Gosh, with a hard nosed stance like that it's a real shame you weren't involved in the negotiations). This is despite the fact that both a House of Lords committee and a top Legal firm said there was no obligation to pay them anything. Added to that we have paid in massive contributions since we joined, receiving comparatively little back in return.

Presumably then you have followed Barnier's direction, that 'we must settle our bar tab.' I only hope when I stop frequenting my local, they don't insist that on top of my bar drinks tab, I contribute towards; the future pensions of all the bar staff; the refurbishment of the bar; the refurbishment of all the other pubs in the group; and the construction of lots of new pubs for the next 4 years. That would be one very expensive round!

On the other matters; you are not sure whether it is worth spending on Trident but you think we should spend it anyway? On HS2 you are not sure whether it is worth spending on that either but you think we should spend it anyway? You know what, I think I'm beginning to see a pattern here. I can almost hear Ray Winstone saying ''Bet Naaw''

You conclude by saying that you think we will probably run short of food because of Brexit. So in your world we would have - 'No food but a very fast train and a nuclear umbrella.' I suggest you don't propose this as a campaign slogan for whatever political party you support at the next election.

Come to think of it though, it could well fly in North Korea.
:lol: No, you clearly don’t understand my position.
mad?
Posts: 5621
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:27 pm
Location: london

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by mad? »

Stimela, on this thread there was a period where people tried to have an open discussion without vitriole and sarcasm. It did not last very long :roll: surprise surprise but I think there are some still attempting to have a genuine debate. What I have struggled to understand is what point you are trying to make/question you are trying to ask? Maybe I am just very dumb but you might find that if you just ask the question without the rest you get an answer. Unless, of course, you are not interested in what anyone else has to say, but if that is the case why are you posting on a thread titled specifically about providing information to help those concerned about/affected by Brexit? Or indeed at all?
mad?
piggys
Posts: 1636
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:29 am

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by piggys »

mad? wrote:Stimela, on this thread there was a period where people tried to have an open discussion without vitriole and sarcasm. It did not last very long :roll: surprise surprise but I think there are some still attempting to have a genuine debate. What I have struggled to understand is what point you are trying to make/question you are trying to ask? Maybe I am just very dumb but you might find that if you just ask the question without the rest you get an answer. Unless, of course, you are not interested in what anyone else has to say, but if that is the case why are you posting on a thread titled specifically about providing information to help those concerned about/affected by Brexit? Or indeed at all?
+ 1. Continuous unrelenting sarcasm gets boring after a while.
Catseye
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:03 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Catseye »

"I'd vote to stay in the single market. I'm in favour of the single market" : Boris Johnson.

"Only a madman would actually leave the single market" : Owen Paterson.

"Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK" : Arron Banks.

"Absolutely no-one is talking about threatening our place in the single market" : Daniel Hannan.

"Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing" : Nigel Farage.

And we were not lied to? Mwahahahahah :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
RedPanda
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:56 am

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by RedPanda »

Oops, I found the last 'sarcastic' post quite funny, even if I don't agree with the sentiment.

I doubt anotherdad was offended.
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