Why cant children get over Level 5 in Key stage 2

[Amber]

Absolutely. And I am afraid I have little time for this 'my child is too bright for the normal assessment tools' business. As Wonderwoman says, in English you need a certain maturity to do better, and it is also debatable whether you really should be able to get anywhere near 100% in a challenging English paper - after all, who can write perfectly?

I have had some 11 year old children here who cannot name, let along identify, more than 1 native tree, flower or insect, and have incorrectly identified starlings as blackbirds and woodpeckers as robins. I know children who cannot name the ingredients of a cake or bolognese sauce, let alone know how to start cooking either. And I also know a horribly high number of children who have no resources to amuse themselves if computers/TV/organised activities are not available. That some of these might be level 5 or even 6 in Maths would impress me far more if I felt their education had addressed some of the gaping holes in their all-round human-beingness, rather than focussing on long division or similes or whatever. Our education system is already tragically narrow at a very young age - if we try to deepen it rather than broaden it, then we will end up with a group of very disaffected and also poorly-educated (in the widest sense) young people.

[Rob Clark]

The people with the greatest interest in SATs results are usually the parents of those scoring highly - I suspect there must be a vicarious glory to be had

Amber, while I’m sure you are right in many cases, in Bucks at least there are 2 reasons for taking Y6 SATs seriously:

1. It’s important to have 5s if you want to consider the 12+

2. Some non-GS schools use SATs results as a criterion for setting – this was significant at DD’s school as only top sets do triple science which is her best and favourite subject(s)

(Completely take on board the [points you make in your later post)

[wonderwoman]

there are 2 reasons for taking Y6 SATs seriously:

1. It’s important to have 5s if you want to consider the 12+

2. Some non-GS schools use SATs results as a criterion for setting – this was significant at DD’s school as only top sets do triple science which is her best and favourite subject(s)

I know this is addressed to Amber and I'm not trying to jump in - but as someone else said assessing up to level 5 already addresses the 2 issues above.

IMO though whilst setting for Y7 from ks2 SATs is OK, if that's what the school does, I would not be impressed if that is set in stone for GCSEs. I really don't think it should be decided who does triple science from a set of marks, not all related to science, from a different school at Y6. In fact it's quite shocking.

[Amber]

I know this is addressed to Amber and I'm not trying to jump in - but as someone else said assessing up to level 5 already addresses the 2 issues above.

IMO though whilst setting for Y7 from ks2 SATs is OK, if that's what the school does, I would not be impressed if that is set in stone for GCSEs. I really don't think it should be decided who does triple science from a set of marks, not all related to science, from a different school at Y6. In fact it's quite shocking.

Jump away, Wonderwoman - it's not my forum!

I agree with what you say, and I think (but am ready to be contradicted) that most schools do not use SATs results for setting. The secondary I taught at most recently (a couple of years ago now) just, er, filed the results, having for the previous 2 years entered them on student records and realised they had never been used. This could have changed since, but as secondary teachers know that SATs are a very blunt instrument, I can't imagine any decent school relying on them much past Year 7. As you say, if they are still being used by GCSE stage, that would be shocking and an issue to take up with the school.

[hermanmunster]

if going to a school that sets on year 6 sats then best not to do them ... the school will soon find some more appropriate way of assessing them.

[Tree]

Hi all
My dd's schools sets in year 7 but only for maths and the ks2 result is just one of the factors they use as well as primary school recommendations etc but we noticed the the sets changed a few times in the first year mostly with people going up into top set so i think it was flexible, seemed like a reasonable approach to me.

[chicko-mum]

I thought secondary schools switch to assessing using grades A, B, C etc rather than numbers fairly on (or that only for KS4?). Is there a direct correlation between the two systems of measurement? If not doesn't that lead to confusion for parents (and a pain for teachers who need to explain the system each year)?

[ausvic]

I thought secondary schools switch to assessing using grades A, B, C etc rather than numbers fairly on (or that only for KS4?).

My DS's GS assesses in levels. In year 7 we were given expected yr 9 levels and each test, assignment and report has the level achieved ( ie 6- or 6+ etc).

[Rob Clark]

I really don't think it should be decided who does triple science from a set of marks, not all related to science, from a different school at Y6

Gosh, no need to shoot the messenger, folks! I didn’t say that I thought this was a good system or that I agreed with it – I was just using it as an explanation of why, where I live, some parents might consider Y6 SATs important in some instances.

wonderwoman, I think they used the science SATs result to help decide on the science sets, the maths result to help decide the maths set and so on.

I think (but am ready to be contradicted) that most schools do not use SATs results for setting

Amber, no idea about most schools but even if DD’s school is the only one in the whole country that does this, it is still the only relevant school from our point of view, isn’t it? I’ve no idea whether they use them past Y7 – since they seem to do quite a lot of testing and assessment I doubt it but why spend a year in a lower set than you are capable of?

if going to a school that sets on year 6 sats then best not to do them ... the school will soon find some more appropriate way of assessing them

Herman, in theory that’s so of course, but DD’s school did setting very early on we didn’t want to take that chance.

[Chelmsford mum]

There are two local secondaries which my daughters could have gone to, if they hadn't got into the grammar school.They still have friends at both, so am fairly confident that following info is correct.
One doesn't set on SATs levels but waits until half term of the first term and bases sets on performance at the new school.The other does set rigidly for the first two terms based on SATs.After that they have a shuffle around.
Therefore SATs results do matter to some of the parents for understandable reasons, if their child is going to the latter school.