Wanted to ask this for a long time

[scarlett]

Perhaps some children really can't achieve a basic level ? Maybe that's why in the past children left school to learn a trade . Or am I the one being dim now.

[Amber]

I still can't shake off the idea that achievement levels can be improved with a little bit of firm push. Isn't that what all independent schools do?

I think any parent of a child who has taken Year 6 SATs any time recently - in state or independent school - would say that there is definitely 'a firm push' towards getting all the children to level 4. Though of course this has much less to do with the interests of the child than the desire of the school to look good in league tables. That some children fail to reach a basic standard of literacy upon entry to secondary school is a historical fact with many complex reasons. I stick with my opinion that these children should be helped when they get to secondary school - research shows that 1-1 targeted intervention is the most effective way to raise standards in children without specific learning difficulties who are just not performing as they should be.

[xyzzy]

No, believe that most fail to reach because it is not a requirement to do so. It's like why is your room not clean.. Because you never told me to clean it mum.
It is in the interest of the child to reach level 4.and we should ensure they do. And I believe they will.

Do you seriously, honestly believe that children in KS2 are not having the necessity to get to level 4 drummed into them relentlessly? Do you seriously believe that there is a headmaster or headmistress, anywhere in the country (or at least in England), for whom KS2 4+ English and KS2 4+ Maths aren't the first thing they think about in the morning and the last thing they think about at night? Have you actually ever been into a primary school? Why don't you pop over to your local primary and remind them that league tables exist: you know, they might have forgotten, or something.

Just tell them to clean their rooms. Sheesh.

[xyzzy]

I still can't shake off the idea that achievement levels can be improved with a little bit of firm push. Isn't that what all independent schools do?

Enfin je me rappelai le pis-aller d’une grande princesse à qui l’on disait que les paysans n’avaient pas de pain, et qui répondit : Qu’ils mangent de la brioche.

[sgcmum]

'i stick with my opinion that these children should be helped when they get to secondary school - research shows that 1-1 targeted intervention is the most effective way to raise standards in children without specific learning difficulties who are just not performing as they should be.'
Amber,
I am agreeing with you here. Probably it's best that way - no social stigma etc.


Xyzzy,

The reference to Marie antoinette doesnt hold here.
This question was something that was bothering me for some time and I have received many posts pointing out that it was a simplistic solution,which I accept.
Oh and the room is clean now.

[mike1880]

I can't say it sounds like a practical proposition to me, but it occurred to me that the deterrent effect might work better on underachieving teachers than on underachieving pupils. I'm sure most of us know one or two teachers who are a little too ready to wash their hands of certain children. Perhaps if they were compelled to get them to a certain level before they could hand them over...?

Mike

[edit - no, as soon as I'd posted it I realised that's a stupid idea...when your child has wasted a year with The Really Cr*p Teacher the last thing you want is to repeat the experience...]

[sgcmum]

Mike,
Now there's a thought. There is a nearby primary where the head keeps everyone on their toes,parents included. Needless to say it's one of the top primaries. And the intake is from varied backgrounds,many of them with parents who dont speak English. Wonder how she does that.
I must confess I don't much like that approach either

[mystery]

You might not like the approach but it does sound effective. I really do think there are some children who get less than they could at KS2. They might not ever be able to get a 4b at that age, but they could get a 3 rather than a 2, or a 2 rather than a 1. It's very hard once a child with level 1 say goes into a KS2 classroom for them to make progress without a lot of 1:1 help, and unless you get loads of trained volunteers in and have lots of spare space for that to take place, it doesn't happen. I volunteer in school; there are parents who are willing to help more with their own child at home but they are not told how. There are others whose parents couldn't in a month of Sundays. They could all progress further with more one to one from a trained helper. It's the logistics of this that do not always seem to be straightforward.

[sgcmum]

It is very effective. The school is one of the top primary.there is regular feedback and homework for the parents too. But the parents are happy overall.though occasionally the head does go a bit overboard - recently refused permission for a child to attend open day at a secondary.
In fact I have often wondered if this school can do it, why not more? The attitude is completely different from the one my DD went to.

[xyzzy]

Mike,
Now there's a thought. There is a nearby primary where the head keeps everyone on their toes,parents included. Needless to say it's one of the top primaries. And the intake is from varied backgrounds,many of them with parents who dont speak English. Wonder how she does that.

Why don't you find out and tell us?