Hitting my head on a brick wall

[Waiting_For_Godot]

What a very interesting post Cranleigh and I think I've done a U-turn on my opinion on this matter!

We have it from the other perspective as my son has a very high verbal IQ and is exceptionally articulate. The teachers all think he is more capable than he is in certain subjects and was in the top sets, frequently getting shouted at for being lazy or not concentrating when it was just too hard for him. Of course, I suppose it's better than the other way around and if I'd helped him at home he may have coped.

[mystery]

It's definitely not me Cranleigh, but the parallels you describe are uncanny.

I think you are right about some teachers valuing the "verbal" --- and I think it's even more simplistic than that - it's the verbal skills that they "hear" - not verbal skills in total. So the child who answers every question by shouting out is at an advantage because the teacher gets to hear that they can do it. The children like mine who put their hands up and wait to be asked (rarely happens) get misjudged it would seem. (Some) teachers also seem very impressed by children who can recite masses of facts.

Yes we have the same things with homeworks. I asked why my DD was not given a particular set of maths puzzles last weekend which another child I know had received (we photocopied it and did it anyway because it looked fun). The answer was ........ I only gave that to two children in the class. I can work out who they are --- the singled out geniuses of the class. More gets more, less gets less, the Matthew effect. It's a shocker.

The only magic thing I can see about these two children is that they tell teachers what they would want to hear and show off what they can do. e.g. you say something sarcastic - they say "that's sarcasm" , you give them 50p - they say "that's half a pound" - rather than thank you I'm going to buy a jam doughnut with that, they tell you and every other child around how much better than they are than the at reading, playing the zither, whatever it is. So I am sure in class that they are very interested in showing the teacher what they can do at all opportunities. Then the mothers will point out if a homework is not stretching - so their homework will get stretched - but no-one else's will get stretched because it is only the ones at the apparent "top" that need stretching by the illogical way of thinking.

Cranleigh, what the tutor says to you is very interesting. Have you asked them why you should get the set moved, or for any inside tips on how to do so?

I got my DD1 moved sets in year 2 when she was dropped down a group onto rubbish work for no justifiable reason that I could see. It could happen again quite easily without me even realising, but I would say it was worth the effort. I was surprised at the pain of the process I went through to make it happen, but I look back and over a year later I'm very glad I did it. I was only aware of it because my daughter was unhappy with it, and because the head made some very derogatory comments about my child's abilities. These were the real spurs at the time that made me act. I think even my DH thought at times that it was futile and I should just let it go, but now that, unbelievably, it's happening in a similar way for DD2 he's keen I should try and tackle it this time.

All schools are different. It all depends how they operate their "tracking systems" and how they pigeon-hole chiildren whether these anomalies that Cranleigh and I have encountered occur or not. I'm sure most schools get it right, most of the time, but any system has its casualties.

Cranleigh, I'm sure it's not too late to get the set moved. At the end of the day, it is only a set. It costs the school nothing (apart from loss of face) to move your child if they are in the wrong one. It would also cost them nothing to give you the same homeworks as the top set.

Only we can do the right thing for our children. I would say persist. Really I'm an Amber and I don't think that extra work should have to be done at home. If the school is creating unnecessary gaps by their harsh systems of tracking and differentiation of work, this means that you have more to do at home. It's not right. It's actually against teaching standards etc etc which each individual teacher has to uphold.

[push-pull-mum]

It ain't all beer and skittles on the top table, you know ...

I would advise any parent to spend some time with their primary school child, every summer, going over the basics of what they were meant to cover the year before - and, if possible, a little sneak peak at what's to come.

If you have a huge primary school in which every "set" can be taught separately then maybe things are different but at our (perfectly adaquate) primary school the top group are left very much to their own devices and, although they are given "extension" work it is often at the extent of teaching, or at least consolidating, what they should be learning in the first place. DS (7) has spent so long designing fiendishly complicated number games that he has completely forgotten his times tables! When his sister was at Primary school I wrongly assumed that, since she was in the top set, doing Year 6 Maths at 7 or 8 that everything was going swimmingly - until I realised that she had, in fact, skipped most of Year 3 and 4 Maths to get there.

[Yummiemummie]

You must be hitting your head against a brick wall. I hear quite a lot these days about headteachers making themselves unavailable to parents, even to parents who rarely bother school with anything. Anyway my advice would be to try speaking to school re filling in any maths gaps and getting a picture of your child's progress (keenly tracked by schools these days), but I also think you need to just focus on doing a little bit at home too. So many available resources, see posts by Guest55. A friends child is making great progress through playing maths games, works a treat with younger children.

[mystery]

Ah thank you everyone. Lots of helpful answers. It gave me the resolve to persist with getting an appointment and I have one later this week. I am going to persist in asking and insist on receiving the information needed to do a catch-up at home plan ......... in reality I'm sure that very little catching up whatsoever is needed as I'm pretty sure we have covered at home pretty much what the top group is likely to have done. But anyhow, if I have the areas they consider to be lacking I can present it all back to them in a way that shows them in an easy to grasp way that she can do what's needed.

Of course I might get a surprise - all those little year 1s might be away doing quadratic equations after their bedtime stories. Also I need to understand what the year 2 teacher will be looking for at the start of the year --- if my daughter has done quadratic equations and she tests them on set theory I'll be sunk. Even if I'm too late for this term if they give me the right information I should hopefully have set things in motion correctly for year 2.

Thing is, this is exactly how I set about things when a similar situation arose with DD1 and it was very messily dealt with in quite an upsetting way - so fingers crossed that does not happen again. However, it was ultimately resolved though so maybe I've just got to bite the bullet and go for it again. Yuck. I just have to remember that "all's well that ends well" and not worry about what happens along the way to that point.

Thank you everyone who has thought about it.

[ourmaminhavana]

I'm glad you finally have an appointment Mystery. That's a great idea to be on the look out for what will be required early in Year 2!
I think you'll find that with only a very small amount of one to one time with you at home your DD will have 'caught up', if indeed there is any catching up to do!As you know my DH has been doing maybe 20 minutes of maths a week with DD and it's made a tremendous difference.

[Waiting_For_Godot]

I'm glad you finally have an appointment Mystery. That's a great idea to be on the look out for what will be required early in Year 2!
I think you'll find that with only a very small amount of one to one time with you at home your DD will have 'caught up', if indeed there is any catching up to do!As you know my DH has been doing maybe 20 minutes of maths a week with DD and it's made a tremendous difference.

It's amazing what 1-1 can do. I was chatting to a Latin tutor the other day and she has every faith that DS will easily be at GCSE Latin level in two years if not before. She also mentioned that one GCSE student has gone up from a C to an A after four lessons because it was taught so poorly that the student didn't understand what was going on in class.