Blair Failed on His Promise
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Mmm interesting and I sympathise with this! Out of curiosity: Are the job prospects for Engineering students in the UK so good and plentifull that all of them will be given the oportunity to design and built things as soon as they are out of the Uni with their first degree?
Regarding MSc and PhD courses, most Engineering students who actually enjoy Engineering can't wait to get out into the world of work and actually design and build things.
sj355
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Guest
A B.A. Hons degree is not an indication of a higher level of academic development.
It is a means by which inadequate time wasters can avoid working and a tool which the government uses to manipulate unemployment statistics.
Why should the government pay for mediocre students with mediocre exam results to sit mediocre B.A. Hons degrees?
What the government should be doing is creating a tiered system that gives the most able students, whether foreign or not, free education. This being a reward for their outstanding academic achievements
Dumbing down of B.A. degrees should be discouraged and Universities should be setting real academic entrance targets for all of their candidates.
How can any a University ever justify offering a place on a B.A. Hons degree course to a student with a "D" grade in GCSE Mathematics (real life experience)?
The level of basic numeracy and literacy support is at its highest level ever, which is reflective of the poor quality of candidates entering the Universities and the dumbing down of GCSE and "A" level qualifications.
The UK needs the group of highly qualified foreign people you have referred to in order to replace the number of people who leave the country each year. If there were not that many dissatisfied UK citizens now living abroad there would be no jobs for them.
Regards
Mike
It is a means by which inadequate time wasters can avoid working and a tool which the government uses to manipulate unemployment statistics.
Why should the government pay for mediocre students with mediocre exam results to sit mediocre B.A. Hons degrees?
What the government should be doing is creating a tiered system that gives the most able students, whether foreign or not, free education. This being a reward for their outstanding academic achievements
Dumbing down of B.A. degrees should be discouraged and Universities should be setting real academic entrance targets for all of their candidates.
How can any a University ever justify offering a place on a B.A. Hons degree course to a student with a "D" grade in GCSE Mathematics (real life experience)?
The level of basic numeracy and literacy support is at its highest level ever, which is reflective of the poor quality of candidates entering the Universities and the dumbing down of GCSE and "A" level qualifications.
The UK needs the group of highly qualified foreign people you have referred to in order to replace the number of people who leave the country each year. If there were not that many dissatisfied UK citizens now living abroad there would be no jobs for them.
Regards
Mike
Oh, my! You do not like your country very much, do you?
Let me defend it for you:
Some Universities do provide the services described above. Do not think for a moment that the job market is fooled by these; very few of the graduates from these get a job at the end of the day, or at least a job in the area the name of their degree aspires to. They enter unqualified, they exit unqualified and they enter jobs where little or no qualifications are required. By the way I know ofa Uni that has also accepted a student with 2 "U" A levels! Practices described above are mainly provided by mostly "new " Unis (but by no means all of them).
Let me defend it for you:
A B.A. Hons degree is not an indication of a higher level of academic development.
It is a means by which inadequate time wasters can avoid working and a tool which the government uses to manipulate unemployment statistics.
Why should the government pay for mediocre students with mediocre exam results to sit mediocre B.A. Hons degrees?
Dumbing down of B.A. degrees should be discouraged and Universities should be setting real academic entrance targets for all of their candidates.
How can any a University ever justify offering a place on a B.A. Hons degree course to a student with a "D" grade in GCSE Mathematics (real life experience)?
Some Universities do provide the services described above. Do not think for a moment that the job market is fooled by these; very few of the graduates from these get a job at the end of the day, or at least a job in the area the name of their degree aspires to. They enter unqualified, they exit unqualified and they enter jobs where little or no qualifications are required. By the way I know ofa Uni that has also accepted a student with 2 "U" A levels! Practices described above are mainly provided by mostly "new " Unis (but by no means all of them).
So at what time is ability judged, according to which free education becomes an entitlement for these clever few and not for the rest? Primary perhaps so we do not waste a lot of money for very long? Hence the clever and the rich shall continue beyond this. Excellent thought! By the way there can be no uniformly outstanding academic achievement because then it would not be outstanding! Universities always had and will have first class, second class and third class honours degrees and even pass degrees. It is impossible for everyone to be top. That does not mean that they should not study, or that they will not perform better at the workplace.What the government should be doing is creating a tiered system that gives the most able students, whether foreign or not, free education. This being a reward for their outstanding academic achievements
You mean its lowest rather than its highest I presume. This means that there is something rotten in the way they are taught then? Better delay the judgment day described above then !!(who is clever and who is not)The level of basic numeracy and literacy support is at its highest level ever, which is reflective of the poor quality of candidates entering the Universities and the dumbing down of GCSE and "A" level qualifications.
I though the elderly were leaving as they got their pension. Are they now joined by the youngs as well? I can guess the places they are going to as the majority speaks no other language other than English. By the way in the good old golden times (early eighties and before) foreigh students outnumbered the natives ones even in the undergraduate degrees. Were they going abroad en masse even then??The UK needs the group of highly qualified foreign people you have referred to in order to replace the number of people who leave the country each year. If there were not that many dissatisfied UK citizens now living abroad there would be no jobs for them
sj355
Hi INEX/sj355
You seem to have defended my country by para-phrasing and re-inforcing most of what I said. Thank you.
I love the UK and have a passion for the country, its architecture, its past culture, history. I particularly like the victorian industrial heritage of the Ellesmere Port Docks Conservation area which has been systematically destroyed by local government officers.
I do not like systems.
I do not like the education system that allows selection in some LEAs and not in others.
I do not like the education system that stifles ability in the failed Comprehensive system.
I do not like the education system that dumbs down qualifications and awards university places to under-achievers.
I do not like the education system that focuses on academia and ignores vocations.
I will repeat my earlier comment
On average 100,000 people a year are leaving the UK.
People taking early retirment, redundancy payments and selling up and leaving make up the majority. As well as people escaping large debts.
Pensioners, as defined by people over the age of 65 make up a smaller proportion.
There has been a brain drain out of the UK for years.
Large numbers of students who do benefit from a high level of education leave the country, because there are better prospects, better pay, better social lives, better economies, better weather, less taxation, less crime and less fear.
Regards
Mike
Oh! I like Canterbury as well.
You seem to have defended my country by para-phrasing and re-inforcing most of what I said. Thank you.
I love the UK and have a passion for the country, its architecture, its past culture, history. I particularly like the victorian industrial heritage of the Ellesmere Port Docks Conservation area which has been systematically destroyed by local government officers.
I do not like systems.
I do not like the education system that allows selection in some LEAs and not in others.
I do not like the education system that stifles ability in the failed Comprehensive system.
I do not like the education system that dumbs down qualifications and awards university places to under-achievers.
I do not like the education system that focuses on academia and ignores vocations.
I will repeat my earlier comment
On average 100,000 people a year are leaving the UK.
People taking early retirment, redundancy payments and selling up and leaving make up the majority. As well as people escaping large debts.
Pensioners, as defined by people over the age of 65 make up a smaller proportion.
There has been a brain drain out of the UK for years.
Large numbers of students who do benefit from a high level of education leave the country, because there are better prospects, better pay, better social lives, better economies, better weather, less taxation, less crime and less fear.
Regards
Mike
Oh! I like Canterbury as well.
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jah
Employment in Engineering goes in cycles. Investment levels were very low in the early 80s and I along with many others could not get graduate level employment straight away. I got work in a materials testing laboratory, which has provided me with useful background experience. Nothing is wasted!!
I hung on in there and eventually got on a graduate training scheme. And yes, from day one, things that I designed ended up on the highway network. May be only a small Traffic Management item, a bit of white lining here or there, but then I soon moved on and after the 3 year training scheme I was part of a team designing a multi-million new spine Road. It is not the complexity of the design that is important, it is seeing something that you've developed actually happen that is great.
I hung on in there and eventually got on a graduate training scheme. And yes, from day one, things that I designed ended up on the highway network. May be only a small Traffic Management item, a bit of white lining here or there, but then I soon moved on and after the 3 year training scheme I was part of a team designing a multi-million new spine Road. It is not the complexity of the design that is important, it is seeing something that you've developed actually happen that is great.
You love the old UK then, not the current one? It is called nostalgia Nothing wrong there, altough I am sure the Victorians themselves (the poor, vast destitute majority I mean) would not have much time or appetite to appreciate the heritage they were going to leave behind so that you as a as a man of today have the time to appreciate.I love the UK and have a passion for the country, its architecture, its past culture, history. I particularly like the victorian industrial heritage of the Ellesmere Port Docks Conservation area which has been systematically destroyed by local government officers.
Neither do I, but a good sewage system (which the Victorians decidedly lacked) would not hurt much! The problem with heritage is that it does not smell of the old times as well; otherwise people would not be so enthusiastic with parts of it!I do not like systems
DittoI do not like the education system that allows selection in some LEAs and not in others.
DittoI do not like the education system that stifles ability in the failed Comprehensive system.
This, as I said, fools no-oneI do not like the education system that dumbs down qualifications and awards university places to under-achievers.
No wonder as you have defined the latter as the natural route for all except the most able. No one likes to be called dim even if they are, hence no one will touch the vocational route!I do not like the education system that focuses on academia and ignores vocations.
Hence UK education is valued abroad because it is of high level (relative to the rest of Europe it still is indeed!) So it seems that we still have a high quality higher education that is widely valued by the rest of the world. So much, that this rest of the world sends their children to study in the UK, or tries to imitate it. Now, today. Be proud!There has been a brain drain out of the UK for years.
Large numbers of students who do benefit from a high level of education leave the country, because there are better prospects, better pay, better social lives, better economies, better weather, less taxation, less crime and less fear.
sj355
Hi
The next time you employ the services of
A plumber
An electrician
A builder
A plasterer
A car mechanic
A joiner
Think about how much you value their service.
Make a mental note of their average ages. It is likely that the figure will be over 40.
Most of these people did not have high academic qualifications to get where they got and would be offended at being called dim.
Do you give absolutely no thought whatsoever to good quality vocational training?
Hypothetically, would you really trust any University Professor to wire a plug?
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The reason foreigners come to the UK Universities is because they are easier to get into because they can offer better high school qualifications than their English peers.
Large numbers of Europeans use English as a second language, presumably having learnt it in their home country education system.
In comparison relatively few UK students have any useable knowledge of a foreign language, hence the relatively few number of UK students studying in non-English speaking countries.
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Nostalgia!!!
Bring back the cane
Regards
Mike
The next time you employ the services of
A plumber
An electrician
A builder
A plasterer
A car mechanic
A joiner
Think about how much you value their service.
Make a mental note of their average ages. It is likely that the figure will be over 40.
Most of these people did not have high academic qualifications to get where they got and would be offended at being called dim.
Do you give absolutely no thought whatsoever to good quality vocational training?
Hypothetically, would you really trust any University Professor to wire a plug?
-------------------------
The reason foreigners come to the UK Universities is because they are easier to get into because they can offer better high school qualifications than their English peers.
Large numbers of Europeans use English as a second language, presumably having learnt it in their home country education system.
In comparison relatively few UK students have any useable knowledge of a foreign language, hence the relatively few number of UK students studying in non-English speaking countries.
------------------------
Nostalgia!!!
Bring back the cane
Regards
Mike
We do not disagree. It is your writings that suggest it is best for the academically unable, not mine.. Anyway most of them are cowboys and this is why everyone is doing DIY. All the plumbers, electricians etc. I have called are very-very young and clueless.The craftsmanship of the most recently built houses is very poor indeed and they cause the mirth of all my foreign friends when they visit.Think about how much you value their service.
Do you give absolutely no thought whatsoever to good quality vocational training?
I do; obviously it is not on offer in this country.
Hypothetically, would you really trust any University Professor to wire a plug?
No, but neither would I trust many of those that came to my home with this intention.
Oh, come on!!!!The reason foreigners come to the UK Universities is because they are easier to get into because they can offer better high school qualifications than their English peers.
So how do they end up working and living abroad if they know no English?!!!Large numbers of Europeans use English as a second language, presumably having learnt it in their home country education system.
In comparison relatively few UK students have any useable knowledge of a foreign language, hence the relatively few number of UK students studying in non-English speaking countries.
sj355
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jah
When (if!!) my daughter gets to university, I will recommend that she befriends the overseas students on her course. They work hard, go to tutorials, and don't spend all their time in the pub. She will end up with a better class of degree, a knowledge of other cultures, and friends from around the world. In return, they generally ask for nothing more than help with their English (written and spoken).
And where to buy cheap, warm clothes from if they come from anywhere near the equator!!
And where to buy cheap, warm clothes from if they come from anywhere near the equator!!
