Tories to reject grammar schools

[kentmum1]

I agree with david willetts ,i think there are too many people privately tutoring there children through the eleven plus,there are many parents who would love to do this but cant afford to.
I think that there should be a scheme for CHILDREN FROM THE MOST DEPRIVED SCHOOLS i.e Bellwood,Oaktrees,Greenfields,Molehill,in maidstone where the percentage of free school meals are high,at the headteachers discretion,should be allowed to have tutors go in and give them private tuition so they can have a bettter chance of accessing a grammar school education

I agree entirely. Why can't the Government propose some kind of "means tested" tuition help for those that can't afford it. Although it's all very well saying we can tutor our children ourselves, perhaps these parents are just not well qualified enough because of their own poor education.

[Donald Rumsfeld]

This issue of tuition is a red herring.

The original idea of the eleven plus and grammar schools was that everyone took the eleven plus, and that there was no tutoring. If you then accepted that the eleven plus was an effective means of streaming (a whole different debate - you can agree or disagree with that) then you had a perfect system ie one where the social mix within the grammar was representative of the local community as a whole.

The problem today, which I think the Tories have woken up to, is that some parents (class them how you will) are more able, willing, interested, whatever - than others, in supporting their kids in what has now become a "competition" for a finite number of grammar school places. This means that those kids (some of whom are bright and would previously have gone to a grammar) who just happen to be born in to circumstances where they dont get that support, no longer get a place - because they were not part of that "competition". That I believe is inequitable. I agree with those who say you should not blame the "interested" and "motivated" (some might call them pushy?) parents. Their behaviour is natural and reasonable. But we should be thinking about all the kids involved here. What is refreshing is that the Tories now seem to be realising that a child's educational chances should not be limited by their parental circumstances.

PS There are known knowns and known unknowns, unknown knowns and unknown unknowns

[Karen]

For what its worth my letter to Dave!

"If the reports in today’s media are correct and the Conservative Party is to drop its support for selective education and the grammar schools then I am distraught to find that, finally, there is no longer a British political party that represents me, my family and our views, hopes and aspirations.

I understand, with a heavy heart, that the party has to change to ‘fit’ a twenty-first century Britain of targets and political correctness and where ‘excellence for none and mediocrity for all’ have become the watchwords. I realise that the party needs to change to win power. However, the issue of grammars is one that cuts across boundaries with people from all walks of life agreeing that bright kids do better when taught separately.

Since the abolition of the majority of grammars, university intakes have fallen amongst students from ‘less advantaged’ backgrounds. Realists in the teaching profession know that mixed ability teaching is not the way to improve skills across all sectors and that the real answer is to improve state education so that all schools produce students with the highest level of academic and/ or vocational skills.

I am returning my membership card and would appreciate having my details removed from your database."

There would be NO argument against grammars if the system was such that ALL bright kids whatever their social background/ school/ location etc were ENCOURAGED and assessed for academic selection.

Likewise, government should stop whining on over '50% to university' and devaluing vocational training and develop a DECENT programme for those who are not academic.

Lastly, however much the bigots of New Labour slate the 'middle classes', they cannot - short of introducing even more social engineering - stop those who understand the incredible value of education from making considerable sacrifices to ensure, in a shitty, dog-eat-dog world, that their kids do well.

Rant over - for now!

I for one totally agree with everything written here!

So do I.

[katel]

The point I want to make - and tried to make earlier is that the 11 who passed the 11+ in my daughters' school are bright - but they are not significantly brighter than a significant percentage of their class mates. What they all had was parents who have had some education, and who understand and are not intimidated by the system. and they were all children who would probably do well wherever they go because of the parental support that they would have continued to have. The whole point of grammar schools, I thought, was to give opportunity to children who have none of the advantages that my daughter and her friends have. This it obviously fails to do - or grammar schools would have more children on free school meals on their rolls. It is impossible logically to deny that grrammar schools offer more advantages to already "privileged" children. Grab the opportunity for your children with both hands, but don't pretend either to youselves or to your children that it is a fair and equitable system.

[Guest]

Thank you Katel. I have taken up Grammar places for both my children, I however have a very guilty conscience knowing the numbers of children who don't have the support at home to take up such opportunities. I was one seven children in an immigrant family, my education in a secondary modern has no comparison to the education my children are now receiving. It is the first time I have agreed with any Tory education policy.

[katel]

Guest -my daughter is taking up a grammar place and I too have an uneasy conscience about it. Particularly when I help in the classroom, and note the children who are as bright, if not brighter than her, but whose family circumstances have denied them the opportunities my already privileged daughter will have. MAybe we could set up a support group for angst-ridde grammar school parents????! I am sure there are a lot of us about!

[Guest]

There's one already. It's called REHAB and right on your doorstep.

[Guest55]

Some of the Grammars in Bucks have a higher intake of children of low earners than some of the Uppers .... perhaps its because the whole county is selective?

[Guest]

Isn't the obvious answer to the tutoring problem to use just a fraction of the time currently devoted to teaching for the SATS tests to giving children a bit of tuition in Verbal and Non Verbal reasoning? It is generally agreed that a few hours familiarisation is all that is needed to access the 11+, so children whose parents bought years of private tutoring would no longer be at an advantage, and this would enable all children to compete on a pretty level playing field. Even in areas where only a small minority of children go to grammar schools VR and NVR would be useful brain training, and would come as a welcome relief and challenge to many children who are bored rigid by constant SATs work.

The reason this will never happen is of course that a lot of teachers are ideologically against the 11+ and would never teach anything, however useful, which might directly or indirectly enable a child to get into a grammar school.

[Guest]

As Grumpy Old Man posted earlier: "those who understand the incredible value of education". Supportive parents are priceless - whatever your background.