Tories to reject grammar schools
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I for one totally agree with everything written here!Grumpy Old Man wrote:For what its worth my letter to Dave!
"If the reports in today’s media are correct and the Conservative Party is to drop its support for selective education and the grammar schools then I am distraught to find that, finally, there is no longer a British political party that represents me, my family and our views, hopes and aspirations.
I understand, with a heavy heart, that the party has to change to ‘fit’ a twenty-first century Britain of targets and political correctness and where ‘excellence for none and mediocrity for all’ have become the watchwords. I realise that the party needs to change to win power. However, the issue of grammars is one that cuts across boundaries with people from all walks of life agreeing that bright kids do better when taught separately.
Since the abolition of the majority of grammars, university intakes have fallen amongst students from ‘less advantaged’ backgrounds. Realists in the teaching profession know that mixed ability teaching is not the way to improve skills across all sectors and that the real answer is to improve state education so that all schools produce students with the highest level of academic and/ or vocational skills.
I am returning my membership card and would appreciate having my details removed from your database."
There would be NO argument against grammars if the system was such that ALL bright kids whatever their social background/ school/ location etc were ENCOURAGED and assessed for academic selection.
Likewise, government should stop whining on over '50% to university' and devaluing vocational training and develop a DECENT programme for those who are not academic.
Lastly, however much the bigots of New Labour slate the 'middle classes', they cannot - short of introducing even more social engineering - stop those who understand the incredible value of education from making considerable sacrifices to ensure, in a shitty, dog-eat-dog world, that their kids do well.
Rant over - for now!
sj355
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Mum of 3
I hope guestL's daughter manages to get a grammar school place like her brother.
However, being myself in the position where one child has got in and the other hasn't, I hope she doesn't castigate her daughter for not working hard enough if she doesn't get a place.
It IS possible to be bright, hard-working and NOT get a grammar school place. This is the point I was trying to get across before. The near-miss children also need an academic environment, not just a good enough education, otherwise there is a huge waste of talent.
Fortunately, more schools are waking up to the fact that they need to do more for their most able pupils, and setting targets that reflect this.
However, being myself in the position where one child has got in and the other hasn't, I hope she doesn't castigate her daughter for not working hard enough if she doesn't get a place.
It IS possible to be bright, hard-working and NOT get a grammar school place. This is the point I was trying to get across before. The near-miss children also need an academic environment, not just a good enough education, otherwise there is a huge waste of talent.
Fortunately, more schools are waking up to the fact that they need to do more for their most able pupils, and setting targets that reflect this.
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guestl
re: mum of 3 comments. Firstly my son did work hard but he is clever and passed witout any extra tuition, had he not passed i would have hugged him and said well done you did your best, i know that if he had not gone to grammar and gone to the local high school he would have done just as well, infact he would have been among the top of the class.I know going to grammar he won't be at the top,but he will have to work and he thrives on work ,he is the type of child that needs constant brain stimulation.I was trying to say that i was always top of my year group at school but my school was not the best and not many pupils gained good pass rates, i know in my heart that had i gone to the local grammar i would have done much better(as i did fall behind in my last years because i got in with the wrong crowd trying to be cool and not the school geek!as i was also picked on for being smarter) despite not having the best education i've done ok in life and my teachers were lovely,but i still feel i've missed out!
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guestinkent
Non Grammar schools should have grammar streams for those that were near passes and for those that pass and don't choose grammar that way they will be in a classroom working with children of the same ability.My old school did this you had top(bright children),middle(average) and lower(those with learning problems) worked well for me as i passed 11+ but went to the same school as my older sibling(i was too scared of grammar as they were single sex only and i wanted to be mixed), my children are not yet at the age for secondary,i am here to be nosy, does anyone know if schools still have this streaming system? or am i from the very dark ages of the 1980s!!
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Mum of 3
Hi INEX
Of course the English grades in comps are not better than the grammar school grades. Only a small proportion of children in the comps could be classed as near misses for a grammar school place. The grammar school population is probably less than 5% of the total secondary school population; so the near misses probably only account for at most 5% of the comp population.
I would expect grammar school population to be getting at least a B for GCSE English (at my daughter's school in 2006: 67% A*/A, 28% B, 4% C, 1% D), as they have had the advantage of a grammar school education, regardless of their English ability on entrance. My daughter was surprised at how many of her intake did not have level 5s at KS2. (Yes, the children do discuss this in year 7). The near misses are probably getting a B or more as well, in spite of not having a grammar school education.
Statistics show that children from better-off families only gain about 1/2 grade per subject from going to grammar school. It is the children from poorer homes that benefit most, by up to 1 grade per subject. This has been reported in the press. That is why it is sad that the Tories seem to be giving up on grammar schools, rather than expanding them. However, if the take-up of additional places would be mainly from the better-off families, who actually gain least from the grammar school, then that rather defeats the purpose. This is because it is the near-misses from poorer families (whether they sat the exam or not) that are the worst served by the current system. By targetting schools in poorer areas, they give give most benefit to children from those families.
Regarding children who are good at Maths being more likely to get a grammar school place; this is partly down to experience of my two children. My elder daughter got all level 5s at KS2, and younger daughter is expected to get them too; so no difference there. However, the entrance exam seems to be designed to test problem solving, rather than reflective thinking. No essay type questions!! My elder daughter would never have got a place if there had been.
GuestL
It's never too late. You may feel that you need to give all your time to your children now, but the Open University's out there. You could study part-time at a local uni to fit in with the family. There is funding available as well if you look for it. You're never too late to go back.
Good Luck.
Of course the English grades in comps are not better than the grammar school grades. Only a small proportion of children in the comps could be classed as near misses for a grammar school place. The grammar school population is probably less than 5% of the total secondary school population; so the near misses probably only account for at most 5% of the comp population.
I would expect grammar school population to be getting at least a B for GCSE English (at my daughter's school in 2006: 67% A*/A, 28% B, 4% C, 1% D), as they have had the advantage of a grammar school education, regardless of their English ability on entrance. My daughter was surprised at how many of her intake did not have level 5s at KS2. (Yes, the children do discuss this in year 7). The near misses are probably getting a B or more as well, in spite of not having a grammar school education.
Statistics show that children from better-off families only gain about 1/2 grade per subject from going to grammar school. It is the children from poorer homes that benefit most, by up to 1 grade per subject. This has been reported in the press. That is why it is sad that the Tories seem to be giving up on grammar schools, rather than expanding them. However, if the take-up of additional places would be mainly from the better-off families, who actually gain least from the grammar school, then that rather defeats the purpose. This is because it is the near-misses from poorer families (whether they sat the exam or not) that are the worst served by the current system. By targetting schools in poorer areas, they give give most benefit to children from those families.
Regarding children who are good at Maths being more likely to get a grammar school place; this is partly down to experience of my two children. My elder daughter got all level 5s at KS2, and younger daughter is expected to get them too; so no difference there. However, the entrance exam seems to be designed to test problem solving, rather than reflective thinking. No essay type questions!! My elder daughter would never have got a place if there had been.
GuestL
It's never too late. You may feel that you need to give all your time to your children now, but the Open University's out there. You could study part-time at a local uni to fit in with the family. There is funding available as well if you look for it. You're never too late to go back.
Good Luck.
Certainly, around West Kent, most of the comprehensives I know, do have streaming. In fact, one of the Church secondary schools, streams by using various tests, including reasoning, during their first couple of weeks in Y7.guestinkent wrote:my children are not yet at the age for secondary,i am here to be nosy, does anyone know if schools still have this streaming system? or am i from the very dark ages of the 1980s!!
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guestl
re:mum of 3, thanks but i am quite happy where i am in life, i do give a lot for my kids, who does'nt? and as for my yr 5 duaghter she is doing well and i expect she will be ok with the 11+ it does not matter if she does not pass, as long as she is happy, it just seems that so many parents push their children far too hard, if they are bright they will do well,i do support both my children and make sure they are happy and healthy.It is a known fact that wher i live children do better at the grammar schools,so in an ideal world both mine will settle into the same grammar school but if my little girl does not,it won't be the end of the world.
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teresa
I agree with david willetts ,i think there are too many people privately tutoring there children through the eleven plus,there are many parents who would love to do this but cant afford to.
I think that there should be a scheme for CHILDREN FROM THE MOST DEPRIVED SCHOOLS i.e Bellwood,Oaktrees,Greenfields,Molehill,in maidstone where the percentage of free school meals are high,at the headteachers discretion,should be allowed to have tutors go in and give them private tuition so they can have a bettter chance of accessing a grammar school education
I think that there should be a scheme for CHILDREN FROM THE MOST DEPRIVED SCHOOLS i.e Bellwood,Oaktrees,Greenfields,Molehill,in maidstone where the percentage of free school meals are high,at the headteachers discretion,should be allowed to have tutors go in and give them private tuition so they can have a bettter chance of accessing a grammar school education
If the advantage of grammar school teaching defeats the argued "language" weakness that perhaps some kids may have, then perhaps there is a point to have a preference for maths skills as opposed to language skills. It is never too late to improve on the latter, but not necessarily on the former.I would expect grammar school population to be getting at least a B for GCSE English (at my daughter's school in 2006: 67% A*/A, 28% B, 4% C, 1% D), as they have had the advantage of a grammar school education, regardless of their English ability on entrance. My daughter was surprised at how many of her intake did not have level 5s at KS2.
Problem solving requires reflective thinking.However, the entrance exam seems to be designed to test problem solving, rather than reflective thinking.
Yes, the reason of that is that hundreds of children take the entry exams; there are no resources to mark essays.No essay type questions!!
I am sure your daughter turned out ot be an excellent grammar pupil regardless. Essay writing is not that important as they pick up the skllls later. Numeracy on the other hand is. Designing tests that weigh more numeracy skills has a point. It also helps children whose first language is not English to benefit from grammar education.My elder daughter would never have got a place if there had been.
sj355
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Guest
