Pre-school problems

[Y]

What is interesting to observe however, are teachers' reaction to this type of play when a child initiates it (not just Montessori ones but mainstream ones too).

Please develop this - I'm really interested. What is interesting about their reactions?

[Amber]

Just skim-read this thread back and can't see how old your daughter is. Once upon a time, when I was teacher training back in the 80s, someone rather wise told me that small children don't like to be in different pre-school settings and the whole business of being separated from Mum is traumatic enough for them without expecting them to deal with multiple settings. In fact I also remember a nursery here refusing to take a child (not one of mine) who was also doing days somewhere else. Now I have no idea whether there is anything in it from a child psychology pov, but to me it does seem quite a lot to expect of a little one, to be away from you in two totally different types of setting. She is probably a bit confused about why it is OK to do this here but not there, why there are toys here and not there. She is only little - it would confuse most of us I think. But because your daughter is small, she can't say ' hey mum, I am confused about the different expectations of the staff at these two nurseries, help me out here.' The only tools at her disposal are the hissy fit toddler tantrum type... A way of saying 'stop, look at me and listen to what I am trying to tell you.'

Maybe you have to choose one and stick with it. For the sake of consistency, I suggest this would be the one which most closely fits your own philosophy and style of parenting.

[DIY Mum]

Oh yes, it's quite easy to get confused. Even adults and academics struggle with play pedagogies.

Y- I will respond to you via pm- for the sake of keeping this topic on track and in the hope that I'll be able to condense (a previous project) where I wrote approx. 24,000 words on this topic.

[Amber]

Oh yes, it's quite easy to get confused. Even adults and academics struggle with play pedagogies.

That is partly because they don't necessarily translate well across national/cultural boundaries. A close Danish friend bemoans 'forest school' here, where it bears little resemblance to the original version (which presupposes something at least vaguely akin to a forest, rather than a muddy corner of the playground) ; and a lecturer friend in EY is tearing her hair out at well-meaning but missing-the-point attempts to try and 'do' Reggio Emilia in nurseries she has links with.

[mm23292]

I have been pondering that one Amber, the fact they are such different environments, and she obviously gravitates towards one over the other. But this dual situation has been the same for almost a year. (She is 3 now) We kept the Friday afternoon creche going, because she simply loves going. We did originally try for the morning nursery sessions they run, but because they are funded places, they are snapped up long in advance, and non-funded places were not available either. But I agree with you, it must be confusing for her sometimes. On the other hand, she was fine for almost a year with that arrangement. Having had her op in June, she returned to school a different child two weeks later. She could suddenly hear having had 70% hearing loss in both ears, her speech literally developed from one syllable words to full blown adult like sentences overnight, and she seemed so happy and settled, we were delighted at how easily and quickly she handled the transition we were led to expect could take a while. Having read all these very helpful posts, and pondered everything that has happened over the past few weeks, I am inclined to think a large part of it, is perhaps the fact that she has overheard this lady mentioning her head-strong ways a few times. Saying she is 'naughty' without actually using the word, 'naughty'. And of course, now she can hear and understand far more than she could before. That comment about the dog and his name is so true! It has to be more than coincidence I'm sure...

[Jiff]

DIY Mum - could you pm to me too please.

[mystery]

Amber, I do agree with you on quite a few fronts! The attempts at Forest School here do make me laugh. Also, I wonder about the wisdom of trying out a learning theory for just 3 hours a day rather than at home too. Surely if a nursery was "seriously Montessori" it would explain the theory (or pedagogy - which is it?) to the parents and they would work along similar lines at home too? How much time did Maria Montessori's charges spend in her care?

However, my guess is that in this case this particular worker has not been at all "in tune" with the OP's daughter and has tried to be overly authoritarian and failed. Have things continued to be better since the "sticker day" OP? (I don't think Maria M had stickers did she?

[Amber]

I hate stickers! Apart from being disastrous for the environment (my DD argued, unsuccessfully, at primary school,that it was not appropriate for children to get a 'green team' sticker every time they recycled something), they are such silly, twee little symbols of pats on the head for all kinds of nonsense - they are soon devalued and worthless and kids aren't daft, they know when they are being patronised." I ate my lunch" - yes, that is what you were expected to do; "I did my best" - well only you know that, and what if the teacher got it wrong and you didn't, what does that sticker mean then?; " I tidied up nicely" - oh for goodness' sake!

'Pedagogy' is a dirty word in this country. (If you're interested, mystery, check out Brian Simon's 'Why no pedagogy?' and Robin Alexander's later 'Still no pedagogy' for some insight into why we don't 'do' it here). Lots of bad things are done in the name of Montessori, Steiner, Reggio Emilia, just as lots of bad things are done in the name of religion. I think possibly one or 2 inspirational individuals, whose philosophy is actually less important than their presence, charisma, personality or whatever, end up having others trying to bottle their excellence in an attempt to emulate and transfer it. Not necessarily a successful strategy. That is what I love about Scandinavian pedagogy (they have it there) - it starts with the child, but also recognises that the child has to live in and contribute to the society, so has to learn from a young age to think of others. It's not a formula, but a way of life permeating every level of society and education. I don't think any of these great educationalists ever really got that one licked. "Child-centred" means something rather different there - here it seems to mean let the child do whatever it likes and we will just kind of trail round after it while recording what it does and making happy praising sounds: 'good girl', 'Oh, you put the red ones together, well done.'

OK, will stop as am getting perilously close to my pet subject. I hope the OP's little one is happier; and that OP isn't beating herself up too much over it. Kids are resilient too, so once the situation has improved, she will be just fine, I am sure.