Disillusioned.

[JRM]

I would have thought it is very rare for changes to be made to financial agreements retrospectively. Whilst the argument is that interst rates on savings accounts are low, I'm sure there would be better ways for parents to invest the money as a nest egg in case they 'need' to help their children out in the future. That help could take the form of a partial guarantee on a mortgage, or using the money put aside in case the rules change. To me that would seem the sensible avenuse to investigate rather than paying off debts upfront which does not make sense based on the current financial agreements. People are naturally risk averse, and unfortunately that acts as a deterrent to people choosing to go to uni. And proportionally the risk is greater to those on lower incomes, even if it is not in absolute terms, which is what I believe is the main concern over these fees affecting university access. If we were all risk neutral then there wouldn't be a problem.

This thread also shows the effect that a complete lack of trust in our politicians has. And I'm not sure that is going to change.

[hermanmunster]

However I still want all my dcs to go to Uni and have a profession. Therefore they will take out loans, and I will encourage them to pay these off sooner in their lives, thus saving interest, rather than later. Except for my daughter - sorry to be sexist here - but if she does have a family and wants to work part-time, for example, she will probably never have to repay everything.


It is so sad to hear of parents discouraging their children from going to Uni. I still feel that it is very important - where the child is capable of completing the course. I will admittedly be discouraging mine from going to study History of Art or Stand Up Comedy (yes, you can do that degree at the University of Kent) but will strongly encourage them to study subjects that should lead to a relatively stable career.

Um .. understand the comments but actually I am female and probably the only one in the family who would have been able to pay off the uni fees if they had been around when we all went to Uni!!! Never assume women will earn less, never assume they will be part time - it is hard to do in professions - your daughter may end up blaming you for not appreciating that in the future.

Having said that none of the family are considering any of the traditional professions any longer - we have been there and have the T-shirts to prove it, some medics have given up, the lawyers are now academics, the teachers have gone back to creative arts- and the kids are studying subjects they enjoy purely for the academic interest.

[Guest55]

JRM - have you read the paperwork? It specifically says the terms CAN change at any time!


Herman - totally agree - I would also be the one paying back!

[Warks mum]

I'd have been caught by the current system since I was in a very well paid job before I had DD, gave up completely for five years and then worked part time in a much lower paid job.

I'd have had to pay back my loan in the early years. If you average out my pay over 30 years I probably wouldn't have had to pay anything back, but since I earned a lot in the first few years I'd have had to pay it...

This seems to be an anomoly that doesn't appear to have been taken into account and certainly discriminates against those who want to stay at home to look after children.

[um]

Well, I was lying in bed feeling rather ill and have just had a lightbulb moment!

Uni fees are actually paid for children of unemployed parents...and they also receive a grant (yes, a grant, not a loan) to help them through Uni.

Sooo...I was thinking that if dh 'loses' his job in the months before ds1 goes to Uni, and each of my children did a 3-year degree, then assuming each degree cost £27,000 (and we know it will be much more by then), we have 'saved' £135,000! That is obviously not including interest...

If each decided to do a 6-year degree, we would save £270,000!

And that's not including the grant they'll get!

What do you think? He'd be a right chump to continue working

[ginx]

Um, my brother has three children each two years apart.

He is md of a company, but trained as an accountant. He is planning to be unemployed when his older two are at university, especially because the middle dc wants to be an architect, which I believe takes five years.

Maybe you have a point (maybe you're my s-i-l?)

[hermanmunster]

hmm ... not sure about this - yes there are grants to top up the loans for maintenance - but am not sure that anyone gets the fees written off fully if the parents are unemployed..... here is bristol's info (I think they all vary a bit)

UK (home) students undertaking their first degree from lower income families will be eligible for a fee waiver (which reduces tuition fee liability) for each year of their programme, depending upon their household income level and being in receipt of a living cost grant from the Government.

Students whose residual household income is £15,000 or below, and in receipt of a living cost grant, will have a reduced tuition fee liability of £3,500.
Students whose residual household income is between £15,001 and £20,000, and in receipt of a living cost grant, will have a reduced tuition fee liability of £4,500.
Students whose residual household income is between £20,001 and £25,000, and in receipt of a living cost grant, will have a reduced tuition fee liability of £6,000.
Students undertaking the PGCE course are not eligible for the tuition fee waiver outlined above.

Other option is to move to Scotland 3 years before the kid goes to uni - however government funded places in Scotland for scottish students are very limited and many scottish students are can't get into local unis.

[ginx]

hermanmunster

You're right, it might not be worth much to lose your job to save money on tuition fees, I suppose it depends how much you earn.

I don't know enough about it, but my brother seemed quite serious about it. Probably find he doesn't know the facts either. It sounds complicated.

Disillusioned is a good title for this. Forget university for a moment. If dc stay at home, how do they ever afford to leave? Even if they have no student loan hanging over them, how do they ever afford to get a mortgage and buy somewhere to live? I suppose they rent. Dd1 is never going to get A levels (doesn't want to do them) let alone a degree, she might work with children or something, but how will she earn enough or save enough to buy a house?

I suppose a student with a loan has even less chance?

I can't see our four dc leaving home for years. I had been hoping to downsize our house and move one day. In my dreams I think.

[hermanmunster]

I am not sure that mortgage companies are going to get that stressed by student loans as they will be so common - most of the mortgage applicants will have one, if they don't have a degree - will be they be able to afford a house?

re the "losing a job" to get income below those levels takes some doing as people have to live on something and instead of being able to help out with train fairs, clothes etc they will be stuck trying to fund themselves, also having no income means no pension contributions .. is it worth it?

[ginx]

Depends how many children you have, how close together, how long their courses are. What if you earn say joint total £40,000 p.a. and have four children two years apart, no savings. No, that's not me, but could be ... I suppose not many people have four children, most have two or three, or so it seems.

Good point about mortgage applications. Maybe everyone will move to Scotland. I guess property is cheaper there. Although finding a job there may be hard ...

It seems there is no answer. Our dc are going to graduate broke; we will be broke in our attempts to help them. I hope my dc only go to university if they do a vocational course that should get them a job. My dh is already destined to work till 70. I don't work and would like to but realistically am never going to earn much.

Is there an answer?