In the News:Primary pupils could be ranked nationally at 11

[neveragain*]

On a more serious note, I see ( professionally) so many stressed, anxious teens and 'Tweens' with very low self worth or even self identity who have been pushed academically and encouraged to think that academic worth is the bee's knees.

If only we could look at our young people and really help them to identify what interests them, what natural strengths and potential areas to work on they have, and to celebrate difference we would have a very different picture.

My DD has said she is horrified and mortified with the response to her Oxbridge offer. All of a sudden people are ' really interested' in her, and talk incessantly about it. As she keeps saying a) it's just an offer and b) it doesn't mean enough to warrant the amount of interest! She imagines that if/when she fails to make said offer they may be all of a sudden a lot less interested in her once more!

Incidentally - this is a child who didn't go into mainstream school til year 5. She wasn't doing anything academically til age 7. She would have ranked in the bottom 10% on these figures........and how would that have effected not only how she considered herself ( if I'd been so unwise as to share it with her) and indeed how we may have perceived her ability?

It is not a race. It is not a competition. They are children.
They are not a reflection of our hopes, dreams, desires. They are their own people.

[JRM]

This thread has made me smile. I have found the reporting of this proposal on tv news programmes appalling in even explaining the proposals properly.

I am wondering now what to do with DS2. The lines on his pregnancy test were so feint we weren't sure at all until 5 tests down the line. But I had a feeling that he was there. So although his teacher has just assessed him as not meeting his ELGs I am sticking with my gut feeling that he will be just fine. And no, I haven't told him that he has been judged to have 'failed' the week before his 5th birthday.

[mystery]

This thread has made me smile. I have found the reporting of this proposal on tv news programmes appalling in even explaining the proposals properly.

I am wondering now what to do with DS2. The lines on his pregnancy test were so feint we weren't sure at all until 5 tests down the line. But I had a feeling that he was there. So although his teacher has just assessed him as not meeting his ELGs I am sticking with my gut feeling that he will be just fine. And no, I haven't told him that he has been judged to have 'failed' the week before his 5th birthday.

Still think one needs to read the consultation document to see what they are thinking about. It's not quite what you are all thinking I don't think .....

However the so-called "ranking" is done it's still not much different from the current situation - you could look up your child's EYFS profile points, or their KS1 scores or their KS2 scores etc and pretty much see where it placed them relative to the population at large. The difference is you would have to search out the information a little bit to do this whereas in this proposal everyone would get it in the school report presumably.

Whether these rankings are there or not children still get upset at school if they get left behind - they can see when the others are reading chapter books and they're not, or when another kid gets every question right when they put their hand up and they don't. This other stuff is probably far less important to a child than the feeling that sinking at school must give them. The consultation document does seem to be written in the light of trying to make sure that all children are "secondary school ready". Whether the method is the right one is questionable but the intent seems laudable.

[Pumpkin Pie]

Can we start with the conception?

Now surely it starts before conception. Were you on a 'healthy' eating plan prior to conception? 5-a-day, no alcohol, no smoking........and that includes the male species too!

[guest201]

There are an awful lot of parents who dont understand SATs grades and are not interested or inclined to find out what they mean they think that unless they hear otherwise from the school their kids are doing fine. I think a lot of these parents dont realise how well some other kids do. The only way these parents can understand how there kids are doing is if they are directly compared to other children their age and a simple result is given, nobody is saying the children have to know this result or parents have to discuss it in the playground that is up to the individual, I for one have never discussed my childrens' SATs results and find that it is not something that parents discuss in the playground. The ultra competitive parents who are constantly gloating about their childrens' achievements will always find something that their kids can do better than everyone else whether that is SATs results or a national ranking, or the throwing competition at Sportsday

[scary mum]

The only way these parents can understand how there kids are doing is if they are directly compared to other children their age and a simple result is given,

But do they need testing? Does it matter how they are doing compared to others so long as they develop a love of learning or at least doing something they enjoy? They spend so many years being taught to the test. My DD is in year 12, at the moment they are doing things a bit outside of the curriculum as they have a bit of spare time, so things related to, for example being a good scientist. The first week or so, DD claimed it was a "waste of time". When I asked why, she said that it wouldn't be in the A level, so what was the point? A couple of weeks on I think she is realising that it might be useful or interesting in it's own right, but she has been so drilled to do things (even leisure activities) that will help her get good grades, or good personal statement that it's hard to change that mindset.

Or have I been spending too much time listening to Amber?

[doodles]

I completely agree with you scary.

At DS's school years 5, 6, 7 and 8 all went on residential trips at the same time during the summer term after exams week. During that week the timetable was put to one side and Yrs R-4 had a week of the senior school teachers and specialist teachers coming down and teaching them woodwork (with real tools), science experiments, historical cooking (ships biscuits and the like), maths challenges, story/play writing etc etc.

They were still learning but in a more relaxed way and both DS's thought it was the best week of the school year. I'm not saying it should be like that all the time but it is a shame that there doesn't seem to be room for both formal and informal learning.

[magwich2]

The day that state primary schools stop behaving like play groups for idiots will be the day that spurious tests become irrelevant.

[fatbananas]

Oh come on, Magwich, stop beating around the bush.

[Amber]

But do they need testing? Does it matter how they are doing compared to others...

Or have I been spending too much time listening to Amber?

No such thing, scary

It was actually New Labour in 1997 who promised to 'measure performance to raise standards' (1997 Schools White Paper); promising 'more data than ever before', as if this was obviously A Good Thing. Since then the measurement agenda has been taken as a given. No one seems to question the link between measuring performance and raising standards but think about it - does it? How?

I completely despair over this obsession with trying to measure and compare young children with each other. How would we feel as adults to have ourselves constantly tested, measured and compared at work? (This is not the same as performance management/appraisal, although in the adult world there are also questions over the ideas of responsibility vs accountability and professionalism vs managerialism, and they do resonate in education too). The idea of a rounded education with learning for its own sake and being able to develop personal aptitudes and interests has given way almost entirely to a fixation with 'competencies' and measurable 'outcomes'.

If this is what we, as parents and human beings, really do want for our children then fine - let it continue. But let's not sleepwalk into a world where children grow up feeling that life is a big competition that they have to win, rather than a multi-faceted, rich and, most of all, shared experience. Are we sure that the competitive values we are transmitting will not stop children from helping each other, from doing things altruistically or out of compassion, from acting outside the parameters of their own self-interest? Don't forget UNICEF's damning verdict on the relative happiness of our children- who are already the most measured and tested of any in the world.