No smoke without fire?

[kenyancowgirl]

The other argument is, of course, that school buildings are expensive resources to maintain, that are in the main, only used for a small fraction of the day - even if they do have "community" sports type things going on in their gyms, most of the building is empty once the kids have gone. And that's before you get to the holidays. There was once a proposal to run a longer school day and try and accommodate more kids (in those massive oversubscribed primary schools, for example) which would make better use of the buildings (even if the staffing would present an issue!) Certainly buildings could be better used - this proposal, where the school effectively formed the heart of the childcare could make the economies of scale make more sense too.

[southbucks3]

School buildings are open and used 8.45 - 4.15 by children. Our local council offices are huge and mostly unoccupied before 8am and after 5.30pm only two hours more. The school hall is rented out 4 evenings out of 5 for local activities. I think public buildings and offices in general are under utilised in the uk. All our local primary schools are completely empty of staff by 5.30pm....perhaps it is common to our area only?

With the exception of single parent families where only one income contributes to the household finances...(not as huge an amount of people the press lead us to believe) I can see no reason why free childcare should be provided before and after current school hours. Parents have been making ends meet, and doing part time work, or even shifts to accommodate their family life since the war years. Why should the parent that chooses to spend their evenings stacking shelves in tesco so they can be at the school gate, contribute taxes towards parents who elect to work hours that cannot accommodate looking after their children? Looking after our own children is not a luxury it is part of the requirement of being a parent, and any system that deprives parents of the basic need and desire to care for their offspring for at least part of their waking day, is wrong.

My child came home recently complaining that in his class he was the only child that had never been on a plane! A recent popular school activity cost £45 for 10 sessions, an art class cost £5 a session, school dinners cost £17.50 each a week, swimming lessons cost £4 a lesson, climbing £6, music lessons...off the agenda money. We have had discussions as a family, and without question.."having mum" came above all those "luxury" things. we decided when the youngest was happily settled in secondary school, I would seek out a new career, until then the kids will have uk holidays, do free or cheap volunteer led activities...with us volunteering quite a bit and have occasional treats and family swims, have packed lunches, along with dad and learn to play instruments with dad and YouTube.

My children certainly do not spend every evening playing PlayStation, watching telly or hanging about the streets...although they do go scooting round the streets, just like I used to as a child. Yesterday in the pouring rain they ran cross country practise with the dogs, then went to youth club (£2), the day before they made cakes for a charity cake sale, the day before they were at friends houses...etc

We need to take a long hard look at the way our community is evolving, and why our government thinks everybody should centre their whole lives; apparently literally, what with pensions changes making us work until we are nearly dead now, around work and earning money.

[talea51]

Proud_dad, I think you make some very valid points. Perhaps if the children were doing more sport at school and more after school activities at school, that would allow working parents to work longer hours.

Currently our primary school provides very little in terms of after school activities, they all end at around 4:15. At our school there is no one in the school office after 4:30 and no one on the school premises after 4:45. There also doesn't seem to be anyone on the premises before 8:30 am unless there is an early morning club running (like netball) when the PE teacher is there.

We do have some before school activities but, at our school, those activities are on different days for different year groups. This means that I never have both of my children at the same before or after school club at the same time which means that I (or someone) has to be there at 3:15 pm every day in any case.

If this proposal is used to create things like homework clubs and more after school activities so that parents can collect children at 4:30 or 5:00 or even later, that certainly would go a long way towards helping working parents find employment more readily.

I suppose I do live in an idyllic middle class bubble. At my children's school I am in the minority, most of the children have stay at home mums which I suppose is why the school don't worry at all about trying to ensure that things that they do fit in with working parents because the vast majority of the children have very traditional family structures.

SB3, is this secondary school where those activities cost so much? Most of our after and before school clubs are free, they are provided by the teachers at the school. We have some that are provided by outside organisations and those we have to pay for but in the main, they are free. Basketball, for instance, is paid for and that is £39 for 13 weeks but my children do netball which is free, provided by the PE teachers from the school.

[kenyancowgirl]

Our school is like southbucks's...staff used to run after school clubs but decided to work to union rule and stopped doing that, at the same time they stopped producing termly reports. The only clubs run in school are outside agencies (till 4.30 and no later) and they all have a cost, which varies from a couple of pounds (Onside coaching doing various sporting things) to £5 a week drama. School lunches for one boy is £10 a week - yes I could do a packed lunch but part of the meal is the social side, if he has a pack up he has to sit with other children, drum lessons (in school by private tutor) are £60 a term - a luxury certainly but he shows great talent so we bite the bullet. He does football training one night a week, and football and rugby at weekends (these are relatively economical per week) but the rest of the time he is with me/at friends houses. We took the route of me giving up work to be there for the kids, with the idea that I would go back to something when they both hit secondary - actually, we have realised that it doesn't necessarily get easier in secondary as ds1 still has to be collected/ferried places at weird and wonderful times. If there were more things available at school, at low cost, he may well access them as it would likely cost less than me trying to take him on my own. I do think that, if you want to work full time then you need to be prepared to pay for childcare. People often say they have to work full time - I get this if you are a single parent but honestly, we were dinkies (dual income, no kids), we went down to one salary so I could be a mum and we cut our cloth accordingly - nothing bought on tick, beans on toast a couple of nights a week, the oldest cars in the world, grow our own veggies etc. My point is, it is possible to live on less to look after your children but if you don't want to make those cuts/don't want to sacrifice your career/do want to go back to work, that is your choice but you have to be prepared to pay for high quality childcare to do that, otherwise you are getting your cake and eating it! After school activities run in a school could be used as childcare or could be used by people like me that can't afford to do lots of things with my child because I have chosen to bring them up - but they should be accessible to both.

Southbucks - I think scooting round the village is a highly underrated activity - my children do it regularly - never, ever, ever when I want a quiet 5 minutes, however....!!

[southbucks3]

Just to clarify, we do have free after school clubs at school...when weather permits...So not this term do far and the boys enjoy them and I help out with them on two days, the trouble us the lure and excitement of expensive clubs at the same school held on the same days have meant some are cancelled, and sdme shifted to lunchtime, as kids opt for more exciting activities than sport or environmental club...which my lads love.

Kcc, perhaps you could lock them in the under stair cupboard (for their own safety) and scoot round the village yourself for an escape...I once scooted to the village shop with eldest son, discovered a. I had forgotten how to do it, so slow and clumsy b. Next day I discovered inner thigh muscles I never knew existed!

Also is it ok as a nation to provide free childcare for all working families, but scrap so many other facilities due to recession and lack of funds? No it isn't!

[kenyancowgirl]

I could probably just about scoot to the village shop (which is at the bottom of our drive!) but would risk more than a muscle injury I suspect - however, might be "slightly" trickier locking them in the under stairs cupboard due to the prolific abundance of assorted c**p that already resides there!

[ToadMum]

In our area our school and most of the others I know about go for "full provision" i.e. breakfast club from 8am - earlier at at least one school - plus after school care until 6pm, (different from activity-specific after school clubs) for which one pays. The latter can be provided in-house, or the school organises it on other premises. Ours is run in-house at a cost of £6 per session, less if one books and pays monthly in advance; one of the other local primaries hosts a local nursery's after school club which is open to pupils from their school and another school whose pupils are picked up by nursery staff and walked to the host school at the end of the school day.

I help out at our breakfast club on Mondays and Tuesdays, DH on Wednesdays. We used to get free places on the strength of this, but now have to pay our £1 a day for DS2 like everyone else DS2 goes every day, his friend goes with him on Fridays as a treat (less washing up for his mum, plus half an hour in the computer suite if they get there on time ).

I thought everywhere was like this, but obviously not...

[scary mum]

I thought everywhere was like this, but obviously not...

Not round here!

[moved]

Ours also run breakfast club, full cooked! I can't imagine the cost is high as most kids have free school meals. There are external clubs after school too.

[southbucks3]

Ours also run breakfast club, full cooked! I can't imagine the cost is high as most kids have free school meals. There are external clubs after school too.

Ok...really not being daily mail dim here but....if most kids are on free school meals, why do they need breakfast club?