Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

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Guest55
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by Guest55 »

BucksBornNBred wrote: in my area of Bucks house prices are not exceptionally high despite accessible quality grammar schools. You would hardly call this a rich area and certainly not an area you would move into just for a grammar place.
Beaconsfield and South Bucks are incredibly expensive - Bucks has well-above average house prices, even north of Aylesbury. It's one of the reasons schools struggle to recruit teachers ...

Peeople do move here for the GS - most estate agents details say 'in the catchment of X GS -
BucksBornNBred
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by BucksBornNBred »

G55, I am fairly sure you know the area I am familiar with and prices are not that high (well, above what is now affordable but that is another story). I am just saying that people move near and not directly next to the grammar schools. The areas close to popular Bucks grammar schools could in no way be considered wealthy (many ex Council areas), and there are plenty of children from the immediate area that attend those schools; I see them every day ... wealth is not the deciding factor; helicopter parents maybe, but house prices have not increased disproportionately just because there are grammar schools (the area holds its value because of convenient commuting). If there were more grammar schools then there would be less 11+ cruising. And as for estate agent's claims, well they will use anything..and so would I to get the best price, but I still wouldn't buy a house within spitting distance of the local grammars!
ToadMum
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by ToadMum »

I do see Catseye's point about 'gentrification'. The government's idea may possibly have its roots in a hope that it will look like an attempt to even out inequality (or, being less cynical, a genuine attempt), but it is possible that just having a few new grammar schools will do no such thing. I think it is different in an area where there is a more or less even spread of grammar schools and the effect on house prices in both Buckinghamshire and the 'nearer' parts of Kent will be compounded by ease of commuting into London. Having said that, Lincolnshire has several grammar schools and I have no idea what relative house prices are like across that county, say, for comparison.

Interestingly, DD's grammar school has chosen to emphasise how many of this year's leavers will be the first in their family to go to university. This is in the little 'biogs' that the school publishes on its own website; I don't know whether the local press will report / has reported the results from the same angle.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Amber
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by Amber »

Taking up your point, TM, Gloucestershire has just a few grammar schools. They don't have catchment areas. So rather then 'gentrifying' the localities in which they are situated, they attract hopeful punters from all over the south west, Wales and even further. Pates, which is the one many parents aspire to, is situated in a part of Cheltenham with almost all local authority housing, the biggest social deprivation index of the area and the least 'desirable' social profile. The number of children from the immediate area who get into it is negligible - they don't even sit the test. I used to teach in a primary school very close to Pates and the parents of the brightest children there would never even have considered it even if they could have afforded the tutoring - they felt it 'wasn't for them', and didn't even try. So unless this grammar business really is going to be a highly radical experiment in social engineering, which I somehow doubt from a Conservative administration, I imagine all it is going to do is attract more middle class parents to drive their children on long commutes to access the new beacons of excellence.
Catseye
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by Catseye »

"The new selective schools are expected to be required to admit a significant proportion of pupils in receipt of free school meals. Another suggestion is that they will operate strict catchment areas, encompassing communities from low and middle-income backgrounds."

My emphasis.

One thing these schools will not be are super-selectives.
JaneEyre
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by JaneEyre »

Catseye wrote:Hi JaneEyre,

You are always welcome to disagree with me as is anyone else.

Thank you for the links-I get your point and well made too.

The point I am making is slightly different,I'll put it another way to illustrate it by asking a rhetorical question.

The Government are intending to establish 20 odd new GS in deprived areas.How long will it take before the gentrification of these areas as the middle classes elbow their way in and increase house prices?

Do you get my point now?

Hi Catseye, :D

I am afraid I disagree with your point. :( It is not because there are GS in a poor area that the price of houses will go up there! In the vibrant and lovely city of Birmingham, there are three GS in ‘deprived area’ (please, no offence intended to people living there) and house prices there have not gone up because of the presence of Grammar Schools!
- first example: King Edward VI Aston School (nicknamed KEA) is situated in Aston, a SOA
- second and third example: King Edward VI Handsworth School ( a boy school) and King Edward VI Handsworth School for girls are both situated in Handsworth, also a deprived area (Lozells & East Handsworth is a SOA. I do not know if the GS is in the East of Handsworth or the west, but whether east or west, it is in a deprived area I have been told to avoid to live in a soon as I arrived in Birmingham long time ago. I am sure many people live there happily, but when you are used to a certain standing of area with peace around you, it is a bit hard to find yourself in an area with gangs, drugs, crime, etc.).


To give you more proofs to my point, I will give further explanations about the boys school in Aston as its academic level achievement is higher than the boys GS in Handswordth and it also used to be ( and may still be :wink: ) higher than the GS in the middle class suburb of Sutton Coldfield ( I am not up-to-date with the school results of all the GS in Birmingham as my son has been attending another GS for a few years now. No need for me to keep an eye on all results as I am not a 11+ tutor!).
The GS in Aston - though not being the top in Birmingham- has an excellent reputation (like all GS in Birmimgham! :D :D ), people coming from far away to get to this school rather than some other GS which would be closer:
- A few years ago, I met a parent living in Little Sutton [ a wealthy part of the ‘middle-class’ nice suburb I told you about before(Sutton Coldfield)] whose two sons were doing all the trip to the ‘deprived area’ of Aston rather than going to BV, a GS situated not only half way of their daily commute but also in the nice leafy suburb (and not in an area where the police have created a ‘safe corridor’ between the train station and the school for the pupils of the GS! This is what exists today for KEA).

- My DS’ former great primary teacher went to the Aston GS ( KEA) though he was resident in Sutton Coldfield and would have preferred to be at the Sutton Coldfield GS (BV) to stay with his friends, but his parents were looking for what was academically best for him. Well done to his parents! :D They have brought up a wonderful, caring and intelligent young man for whom I have deep respect and trust. He was the star teacher at the primary when my DS was there and went on quickly to become a deputy head at another school.

But coming back to my point about house prices, here are a few house prices near the three above mentioned GS:
Near Handsworth GS
60 Linchmere Road, Birmingham, West Midlands B21 8JL
£120,000 Semi-Detached, Freehold
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices ... ry=england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

near Aston GS
3 bedroom semi-detached house for £122,000
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices ... ry=england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the price is still far lower than the 3 bedroom semi-detached house in the leafy middle class suburb of Sutton Coldfield (the price given earlier was around £319,950).

These three GS have been around in these areas for a very very long time:
King Edward VI Aston School: 133 years
King Edward VI Handsworth School: the oldest selective school in Birmingham, around 150 years
King Edward VI Handsworth school for girls: 105 years


Do you get my point?
Amber
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by Amber »

Do these schools operate catchment areas JE?
JaneEyre
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by JaneEyre »

No, they do not. :D
Amber
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by Amber »

JaneEyre wrote:No, they do not. :D
Well then of course they won't raise house prices. As per my post above, the local children won't access the schools but the middle classes will ferry their children in. Your point about house prices, while well made, is, with respect, irrelevant. If the schools operated catchment areas then as Catseye says, you could expect the prices to rise.
JaneEyre
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Re: Lift on the ban on grammar schools?

Post by JaneEyre »

Amber wrote:
JaneEyre wrote:No, they do not. :D
Well then of course they won't raise house prices. As per my post above, the local children won't access the schools but the middle classes will ferry their children in. Your point about house prices, while well made, is, with respect, irrelevant.
I was responding to Catseye point. I haven't yet responded to your posts as I am struggling with time. :wink: And I also lack data. I would like sooo much to have access to the data available at the Kind Edward Foundation in Birmingham!!! :(
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