Perspectives on girls' clothing?

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Tinkers
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by Tinkers »

mad? wrote:
loobylou wrote: I suppose fundamentally I think I want to say that I think girls should be able to wear what they want. But I would like them not to want to wear certain things.
This completely sums it up.

Girls should be able to wear what they want, the fact that they can't and that what some of them want to wear is so appalling is a damning indictment of how we have raised successive generations. Victim blaming is no solution.

Absolutely. No one should be dictating what people wear in general. Girls in particular are pressured on the one hand by societal 'norms' to be 'attractive' and making them think that their worth is dependent solely on how they look. Then they get judged when they try and meet it.

My 10yo niece often wears camo gear. That's the sort of girl she is. Some of the looks and comments she gets from the mothers of other girls is horrific TBH. She is expected to dress and look a certain way. At 10yo. Thankfully she is strong willed and independently minded and couldn't give a stuff, and hopefully will stay that way, but other girls won't be.
These are mothers who are getting their DDs 'bras' at the age of 5. And we wonder why they dress the way they do later.

It's when you see ads for baby's first stilletoes (yes they really do exist and the photos are at least as bad as your imagine) that your heart sinks.

And why are we currently just focusing on girls? I hate to see boys with their jeans way down their backsides and showing their underwear.
mystery
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by mystery »

You've described me quite well Looby lou. And I don't know why I think like that. I think it when I see how female office dress can be so very skimpy now - and that in some places it's felt wrong for it not to be.

I can't work out why I care; in general I am very laissez- faire about clothing. I honestly don't care if people go shopping in their pyjamas and slippers or go to a dinner party in a shell suit or if they cut their hedges with nothing on. So why I care about female office dress I don't know.

And do the twelve year old girls I saw on Snapchat looking like they were ready to seduce a 20 year old man matter? I don't really know. I don't know what was in their minds when they were posing like that or if that matters either.
Daogroupie
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by Daogroupie »

It does matter because what they are doing is becoming the norm and we need to fight against that.

I am currently weighing up as to if I am going to address this issue with the mother of a twelve year old who is doing just this on a daily basis. My dds have brought it to my attention.

This in my opinion is far more serious than going out in your local town all t and b as perhaps fifty odd people actually see you as opposed to posting these pictures of yourself on social media on a daily basis. DG
scary mum
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by scary mum »

I'm with whichever poster said that they want their DD not to want to wear such clothing. Yes, anyone should be able to wear whatever they like as long as it's not impractical (although you could argue it's only impractical for them!). Some of the clothes the girls in my DSs' sixth form wear are not practical (or indeed warm enough), and I do find myself admiring their friend who is just about the only one who does not go to school dressed as if she is going to a nightclub. My DD has occasionally worn things that I really haven't wanted to see her in, and fortunately it seems to have worn off now. Like everyone else, I am conflicted over this. I don't like it, but find it hard to argue against the fact that that people should be allowed to wear what they would like without threat. And yes, no-one wants to see young lads with their jeans hanging round their knees showing off heir underpants.
scary mum
Tinkers
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by Tinkers »

It is difficult because children, and in particular girls, are being s_ exualised by media of various forms from an early age. Then we complain when they choose to dress that way as they get older.

You only have to look at some of the logos on children's clothing to see the messages we are giving our children. Every. Single. Day.
copella
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by copella »

Censorship is wrong and we all know historically where disapproval and censoring others can lead to, be it for their clothes or what they read etc.

DG what do you expect the parent of the 12 yr old you are thinking of talking to, to say? Do you think she will be grateful, do you think she doesn't see, perhaps she is choosing her battles and this isnt one of them.

I think we need to teach our boys that no is no, no matter how a girl looks. Or else all these rape trials where women are blamed for how they looked and men get off because they couldn't help themselves will continue.
mad?
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by mad? »

copella wrote: I think we need to teach our boys that no is no, no matter how a girl looks. Or else all these rape trials where women are blamed for how they looked and men get off because they couldn't help themselves will continue.
+1
mad?
Tinkers
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by Tinkers »

copella wrote:
I think we need to teach our boys that no is no, no matter how a girl looks. Or else all these rape trials where women are blamed for how they looked and men get off because they couldn't help themselves will continue.
It's not just boys. We need to stop victim blaming. We don't say to victims of, say mugging, that it was their own fault because they were wearing an expensive watch or that they have given money to charities in the past, so why do we blame rape victims because of the way they dress. It's wrong.

It's also disrespectful to men to think that women must dress modestly because men can't possibly control themselves, when actually it's only a very small fraction that feel they can treat a woman badly, regardless of what she is wearing. Most men are far better than that.
mystery
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by mystery »

The mugging comparison is quite helpful. We don't blame the victim and neither does the criminal justice system, but there are some safety tips one can follow to reduce the chances of being a victim.
Tinkers
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Re: Perspectives on girls' clothing?

Post by Tinkers »

mystery wrote:The mugging comparison is quite helpful. We don't blame the victim and neither does the criminal justice system, but there are some safety tips one can follow to reduce the chances of being a victim.

It's taken from something I've seen on the net, where a mugging victim is questioned in much the same way a rape victim might be. Like the victim having a history of giving money to beggars and walking out late at night, or being drunk. It did stick with me as it was around the time of the widely mentioned trial in the States recently. I'll see if I can find it again.

ETA didn't find the one I saw originally, but this is practically identical
https://www.buzzfeed.com/derekj/if-mugg ... s-rape-r76" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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