Generation Gifted
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Re: Generation Gifted
It's a hard one. Risk of making matters worse, being patronising, stirring things up...I don't know. It makes me mad for the society we have created tbh, and someone like her should not be at the mercy of well-meaning strangers or special schemes.loobylou wrote:But if everyone who could help is thinking like that then maybe no one will actually offer it?
The worst that can happen is that they decline. Maybe you should?
Re: Generation Gifted
At the beginning I really took issue with Jada's head of year who seemed to be saying that she wouldn't fit in in a grammar school environment and that maybe she should have different goals. I thought her statements about social mobility were really inspiring. (As a beneficiary of huge social mobility myself - though in my father's generation, nothing to do with education and I know there was better social mobility back then - I do realise what a huge difference it makes).
But then at the end her results suggested that maybe he was just managing her expectations?
I resat my A levels in a 6th form college with another 20 resitters. I was the only person from my demographic there (I think most parents sent their children to crammers). On the first day we had to say what our results were and what we wanted them to be next year. I had BCC and wanted BB in my Cs (and a B in my new one). Other than one other person who had DEU, every single other person had UUU. Two of them - but one that sticks in my mind even now, 29 years later - were desperate to do medicine. It was clearly his dream, he wasn't being pushed. But seriously there was zero chance that he was ever going to get the A levels required, however hard he worked. It was very sad because he was very single minded and very passionate and, again with the benefit of hindsight, I can see how some of the teachers tried to help him manage his expectations and tried to suggest polys he could apply to alongside his UCCA form where he could do something allied to medicine.
I think Jada was getting grade 5s in Maths and English and not quite as good in science? So was her "gifted" ness more her work ethic and her ability to speak in a very inspiring way or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?
But then at the end her results suggested that maybe he was just managing her expectations?
I resat my A levels in a 6th form college with another 20 resitters. I was the only person from my demographic there (I think most parents sent their children to crammers). On the first day we had to say what our results were and what we wanted them to be next year. I had BCC and wanted BB in my Cs (and a B in my new one). Other than one other person who had DEU, every single other person had UUU. Two of them - but one that sticks in my mind even now, 29 years later - were desperate to do medicine. It was clearly his dream, he wasn't being pushed. But seriously there was zero chance that he was ever going to get the A levels required, however hard he worked. It was very sad because he was very single minded and very passionate and, again with the benefit of hindsight, I can see how some of the teachers tried to help him manage his expectations and tried to suggest polys he could apply to alongside his UCCA form where he could do something allied to medicine.
I think Jada was getting grade 5s in Maths and English and not quite as good in science? So was her "gifted" ness more her work ethic and her ability to speak in a very inspiring way or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?
Re: Generation Gifted
Well that had the intended effect on my children I wanted it to. Somewhere between disbelief and admiration.
I agree, out of both programmes the discussion Shakira had with her mother in the kitchen was the most insightful. Her mother's caution that it would cost more than a thousand pounds to go to university and then the look of horror when Shakira searched and found it was 9 TIMES THAT, PER YEAR. Bless her! Hopefully the teachers will give her enough guidance to see past the enormous debt (in her world) or small investment (in our world) she'll encounter.
I wonder how much potential is quashed in discussions like this every day in this country?
I agree, out of both programmes the discussion Shakira had with her mother in the kitchen was the most insightful. Her mother's caution that it would cost more than a thousand pounds to go to university and then the look of horror when Shakira searched and found it was 9 TIMES THAT, PER YEAR. Bless her! Hopefully the teachers will give her enough guidance to see past the enormous debt (in her world) or small investment (in our world) she'll encounter.
I wonder how much potential is quashed in discussions like this every day in this country?
Re: Generation Gifted
Interesting. Must watch this programme. Do Connexions Advisers still exist for 13 to 25 year olds?
And why wouldn't a school be providing good information for pupils on the various routes beyond 16/17/18?
It should be easier than it was with the internet for schools to provide information that was only available years ago in careers libraries. But, in my limited experience of three or four schools both state and private, and all in "privileged" areas, it seems to get worse not better.
I can see why it ends up being down to families to provide reasonable information and that's not fair on the teens in families that can't or where the teenagers view anything the parents might point them to as redundant.
In a lot of schools the pupils have around 30 minutes per day with a form tutor, a graduate themselves, in an internet - connected classroom. That's plenty of time for careers and useful life info to be explored. Otherwise, it should be used on proper recreation or learn another subject.
In one school I know reasonably well, a lot of it seems to be spent checking the girls' skirt length, earrings and make up and whether or not the parents have signed the homework diary. Some of it is spent just letting them chat among themselves - well that's fine but it could include some fresh air and exercise rather than 30 mins stuck in a classroom. I suppose on paper it does cover PHSE, careers etc but the reality of it is rubbish unless the form tutor takes the role seriously.
And why wouldn't a school be providing good information for pupils on the various routes beyond 16/17/18?
It should be easier than it was with the internet for schools to provide information that was only available years ago in careers libraries. But, in my limited experience of three or four schools both state and private, and all in "privileged" areas, it seems to get worse not better.
I can see why it ends up being down to families to provide reasonable information and that's not fair on the teens in families that can't or where the teenagers view anything the parents might point them to as redundant.
In a lot of schools the pupils have around 30 minutes per day with a form tutor, a graduate themselves, in an internet - connected classroom. That's plenty of time for careers and useful life info to be explored. Otherwise, it should be used on proper recreation or learn another subject.
In one school I know reasonably well, a lot of it seems to be spent checking the girls' skirt length, earrings and make up and whether or not the parents have signed the homework diary. Some of it is spent just letting them chat among themselves - well that's fine but it could include some fresh air and exercise rather than 30 mins stuck in a classroom. I suppose on paper it does cover PHSE, careers etc but the reality of it is rubbish unless the form tutor takes the role seriously.
Re: Generation Gifted
"Do Connexions Advisors still exist ..."
Edited to add, no, the are very much extinct these days, Mystery. Nice thought though ...
JD
Edited to add, no, the are very much extinct these days, Mystery. Nice thought though ...
JD
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kenyancowgirl
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Re: Generation Gifted
+1....!!!
No....the government, in their wisdom, decided that they were no longer needed as a central service made up of various youth workers/social workers/housing benefits experts etc could do the job just as well, and sort out drugs issues, teenage pregnancy etc etc as well. No need for specialisms, the government decided....
That went well then.
No....the government, in their wisdom, decided that they were no longer needed as a central service made up of various youth workers/social workers/housing benefits experts etc could do the job just as well, and sort out drugs issues, teenage pregnancy etc etc as well. No need for specialisms, the government decided....
That went well then.
Re: Generation Gifted
Definitely worth a view mystery. The schools and teachers seemed to be doing an admiral job.mystery wrote:I can see why it ends up being down to families to provide reasonable information and that's not fair on the teens in families that can't or where the teenagers view anything the parents might point them to as redundant.
There was a message delivered by a football academy at a parents meeting once that has always stuck in my mind. It was something like this. All the time they spend on good practice in training and games can be undone in a 30 second conversation in the car on the way home.
The opposite end of the spectrum (in terms of parental input) but the same point. Parents always have the final word or at least the lion's share of time with their children.
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Surferfish
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Re: Generation Gifted
I agree ToadMum. The boy said he was interested in how science related to food. So I would have thought that as an alternative to "just" being a chef he might have been made aware of degrees in food science and technology, biochemical engineering or something similar that he might be able to pursue. But instead his well meaning teacher seemed to want to direct him towards a degree in medicine, reinforcing the stereotype that being a medical doctor is the pinnacle of professions that any academically able child should aspire to.ToadMum wrote:Okay, I know I ought not to comment until I've got round to watching the programme, but with regard to the boy whose ambitions 'only' extend to becoming a chef - it's great if he would really, really prefer to do medicine and has the ability and aptitude for it and is only being held back by a lack of self-belief, but please don't let him be being directed towards medicine just 'because he's clever', if his ambitions and talents actually do lie elsewhere. Even in a kitchen.
Last edited by Surferfish on Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Generation Gifted
Well I'm glad that the majority of schools have a good stab at it then. Why isn't the school which made Amber think of helping making a better fist of it then?
The ones I have experienced in recent years haven't done a great job but it has not mattered as the parents / family / friends of the family mostly have -but this is a privileged area and the same school approach in a different area would not raise hopes and aspirations. But yes, parents can undo a lot in the blinking of an eye - but that makes education in the fullest sense all the more important so that teenagers can see beyond the limits their parents feel they have to apply to what might be possible for them.
Were Connexions Advisers any good? Certainly would not work with our family as they would be too shy to connect!
I'd just have thought that by now there would be some great stuff online and through appropriate social networks. Maybe there's a gap. I was a useless form tutor once too. We had no resources and no training would be my feeble excuse - and we did not have 30 mins per day - just 30 mins a week. But there's so much more now free and online that I can see that paying for Connexions etc could be a total waste of money.
Must go watch that programme.
The ones I have experienced in recent years haven't done a great job but it has not mattered as the parents / family / friends of the family mostly have -but this is a privileged area and the same school approach in a different area would not raise hopes and aspirations. But yes, parents can undo a lot in the blinking of an eye - but that makes education in the fullest sense all the more important so that teenagers can see beyond the limits their parents feel they have to apply to what might be possible for them.
Were Connexions Advisers any good? Certainly would not work with our family as they would be too shy to connect!
I'd just have thought that by now there would be some great stuff online and through appropriate social networks. Maybe there's a gap. I was a useless form tutor once too. We had no resources and no training would be my feeble excuse - and we did not have 30 mins per day - just 30 mins a week. But there's so much more now free and online that I can see that paying for Connexions etc could be a total waste of money.
Must go watch that programme.
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kenyancowgirl
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- Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm
Re: Generation Gifted
I think the Connexions Service was incredible...mind you, I did run one.
The point was they were fully independent of all education institutions but worked within them (so any child in school would have had multiple connections with them in groupwork and/or individual interviews). More important was the work the service did with the NEET, generally very successfully-and the majority of these are from seriously disadvantaged families.
The point was they were fully independent of all education institutions but worked within them (so any child in school would have had multiple connections with them in groupwork and/or individual interviews). More important was the work the service did with the NEET, generally very successfully-and the majority of these are from seriously disadvantaged families.
