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 Post subject: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:56 pm
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This week passed me by:

http://www.euro.who.int/en/media-centre ... -week-2018

I hadn't realised until very recently that Andrew Wakefield is such a hit in the states with Trump etc and the anti-vaxx lot. All a bit depressing.


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:37 am 
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:roll: much of the US is a few decades behind


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:44 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
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Location: Essex
Given Trump's hang ups about 'fake news' it seems a little odd. But perhaps not, given everything else about him and his ilk.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:10 am 
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I thought that people just hadn't caught up with the (very old) news that Andrew Wakefield's research was, er hum, "misleading". But it's not that - there seems to quite a significant minority of parents both here and in the states who think that he has more recently been proved right, that it's all a big pharma conspiracy etc etc. There are some autism groups on his side, a British doctor who is also a homeopath with a health info website quite a few parents use.

http://www.jayne-donegan.co.uk/



https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... tism-in-uk

And some strange american websites which British people I know read:

e.g. http://www.autisminvestigated.com/the-l ... wakefield/

Is there a problem with vaccination rates in the UK now or is it OK Hermanmunster? And does all this anti-vaxx stuff make it worse or is there always a similar percentage who don't get childhood vaccinations for a mix of reasons?


Last edited by mystery on Tue May 01, 2018 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
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Location: Essex
"Health" "info".

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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
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mystery wrote:
I thought that people just hadn't caught up with the (very old) news that Andrew Wakefield's research was, er hum, "misleading". But it's not that - there seems to quite a significant minority of parents both here and in the states who think that he has more recently been proved right, that it's all a big pharma conspiracy etc etc. There are some autism groups on his side, a British doctor who is also a homeopath with a health info website quite a few parents use.

http://www.jayne-donegan.co.uk/

Homeopathy :roll: . An utterly ridiculous sham that I find hard to believe still retains credibility in some quarters and products of which are sold in reputable high street stores. I mean, just read this which is from this doctor's justification for it as a treatment:

"A fascinating but as yet unexplained characteristic of homeopathic remedies is that the more dilute a remedy, the more effect it appears to have on the vital force. For example, a remedy diluted 30 times by a factor of 100 (strength 30c) is much more potent than a 6c remedy, even though it contains less of the original substance."

Yeah, I'm surprised the "vital force" is as yet unexplained too... :roll: And as for "30c" as a concentration, it is literally just water. At 12c concentrations the Avogadro line is crossed, meaning there is statistically less chance of the bottle you buy having one molecule of substance in it than not, so you can imagine how that chance becomes absurd when you dilute that liquid a further 18 times by a factor of 100 each time. Supporters of homeopathy will counter this by suggesting that the water retains a memory of the active ingredient and therefore its effect, so it doesn't actually need the active ingredient to be present. Of course they dismiss the obvious consequence of that which is that the water must therefore retain a memory of urine, faeces, vomit, poison and whatever else it has come into contact with in its existence. Yum.

Medicine and science can cure some cancers, replace organs and perform all sorts of incredible things to save and improve lives and we're still giving room for this utter nonsense? Please.


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:15 pm 
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:lol: Yes!

But, somehow charging people a load of people for some bottles of water or chalky little tablets seems bad but not half as bad as some of the deliberate lying that goes on on some of the websites to put people off immunisation programmes?


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Indeed. I think it's healthy that we should question and try to understand as much as we can of whatever medical treatment or vaccination is recommended. I don't advocate just accepting whatever the government or an agency tells us at face value, but there seems to be a wilful attempt to undermine sound, proven principles by a vocal minority who cling to anomalous results and hearsay rather than considering the whole body of evidence.

So yes, charging for basically just water or sugar pills seems the lesser of two evils, but it does have its serious consequences when people eschew proper medicine-based treatment and rely upon homeopathy.

I don't understand how there is a continuing market for homeopathic stuff because if it gets more effective the more its diluted, you only ever need to buy one bottle of it and when you're close to it running out, you mix up a new batch of even greater potency! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:39 pm 
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vacc rates are variable in this country. we spent the last weekend in out of hour seeing kids (and adults) sent from A&E with rashes ?measles.


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 Post subject: Re: Vaccinations
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
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Location: Essex
anotherdad, it's the memory of the vital whatsit that gives it its potency, is it not? So of course diluting it more makes it more potent, because more memory and less reality is involved.

Homeopathy is one of those things that tend to break me out into the words of the immortal Howerd, F - 'Titter ye not! 'Tis cruel to mock the afflicted' :lol: .

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