Vaccinations

[Amber]

I am, however...challenging the hegemony of 'science' and its gradual dominance in all kinds of fields as the only right way.

This shows the power of perception because as a science graduate, I lament what I perceive to be the growing influence of non-scientific thinking at the expense of rational, scientific approaches.
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Really? The social sciences are more and more dominated by quantitative, positivist research and that is the only funding you can get now. Look at the rise of PISA - that is an attempt to quantify education and the OECD truly believes it can now measure things like tolerance, resilience and global awareness, as well as measuring 5 year olds with a view to transferring 'global best practice' across countries and settings. It is what I spend my life opposing! And look at the rise of neoliberal 'ratings' for everything from hospitals to train journeys, 'phone calls to meals. If that isn't the 'sciencisation' of things which we never used to try to measure, then I don't know what is. Every television programme has to be a competition, we even have to vote for the 'most iconic British mammal' and other such nonsense. I feel all the gentler, human stuff is constantly and increasingly sidelined in favour of measurement, standardisation, improvement and the 'heads will roll' accountability culture.

[mystery]

Sorry this does not flow on from previous posts as some others have been written.

Better education is necessary in both the social sciences and the natural and applied sciences. That way we'll have future generations who can tackle big problems more effectively and also people who are more questioning and able to get to the bottom of things so they are less likely to fall for pseudo-science.

There is a world of difference between an area which science or medicine does not have the knowhow or the resources to tackle and an area where the science is already done but where some people and organisations choose to deny it in order to promote their own commercial or personal interests.

The unscrupulous can so easily pick on a "good cause", convince others they have a solution and profit unfairly from it at the expense of others. People with a poor understanding of maths, stats, health and science are ideal victims.

I certainly am not saying that individual members of the medical profession or scientists etc are all honest, infallible and as competent as they should be. Remember the Sally Clark murder trial and Prof Roy Meadow, paediatrician? It was blindingly obvious, even to me, when I read his statement about the statistical chance of both her children having died of cot death that the stats could well be wrong as he was assuming that they were two totally independent events whereas they were children of the same parents living in the same family. And there were several other glaring examples of imperfection in his supposedly august career.

But it would be foolish, as some do, to read about someone like Prof. Roy Meadow and assume all medical experts are wrong - or to assume that someone like struck-off Dr Richard Wakefield is the victim of big pharma and his new career as an anti-vax promoter along with people like Mercola in the US is to be applauded.

It certainly is hard on complex issues to know what is wrong and what is right. Also, as much valuable information is either behind paywalls on the internet or requires membership of a university library to access it free of charge, a lot of people spend a lot of time these days feeling they are informing themselves well on particular issues when in fact they are filling themselves with free of charge disinformation specifically written to misinform.

[mystery]

I am, however...challenging the hegemony of 'science' and its gradual dominance in all kinds of fields as the only right way.

This shows the power of perception because as a science graduate, I lament what I perceive to be the growing influence of non-scientific thinking at the expense of rational, scientific approaches.
.

Really? The social sciences are more and more dominated by quantitative, positivist research and that is the only funding you can get now. Look at the rise of PISA - that is an attempt to quantify education and the OECD truly believes it can now measure things like tolerance, resilience and global awareness, as well as measuring 5 year olds with a view to transferring 'global best practice' across countries and settings. It is what I spend my life opposing! And look at the rise of neoliberal 'ratings' for everything from hospitals to train journeys, 'phone calls to meals. If that isn't the 'sciencisation' of things which we never used to try to measure, then I don't know what is. Every television programme has to be a competition, we even have to vote for the 'most iconic British mammal' and other such nonsense. I feel all the gentler, human stuff is constantly and increasingly sidelined in favour of measurement, standardisation, improvement and the 'heads will roll' accountability culture.

I would say to this, that the simple quantification to which you refer is not science either. Scientists and mathematicians would tear their hair out about how this is done - but in a different way from social scientists.

[Loopyloulou]

On the subject of vaccinations, does anyone know what the availability of the BCG vaccination is like at the moment? DD could do with one. I am told that it is not possible to obtain one locally, and she will need to go to Harley Street.

[Amber]

On the subject of vaccinations, does anyone know what the availability of the BCG vaccination is like at the moment? DD could do with one. I am told that it is not possible to obtain one locally, and she will need to go to Harley Street.

Funnily enough I spoke to a nurse about this only on Monday as DS2 is going somewhere where it is on the 'possibly nice to have' list. We were told that it is not available unless you have Indian parents (her words); are newly arrived from the subcontinent; or are a newborn/unvaccinated child in London. She also said that over time it has proven to be very ineffective so not really worth it anyway.

[hermanmunster]

I think the point about effectiveness is valid. They are only being given in certain circumstances now - usually if there is a high risk of exposure:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinati ... ne-needed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Loopyloulou]

That's interesting. She probably does come into a high risk category viz "occupational risk" but both her (NHS) GP and the local private hospital say they can't get the vaccine, so it looks like a trip to London in the holidays...

[loobylou]

On the subject of vaccinations, does anyone know what the availability of the BCG vaccination is like at the moment? DD could do with one. I am told that it is not possible to obtain one locally, and she will need to go to Harley Street.

Funnily enough I spoke to a nurse about this only on Monday as DS2 is going somewhere where it is on the 'possibly nice to have' list. We were told that it is not available unless you have Indian parents (her words); are newly arrived from the subcontinent; or are a newborn/unvaccinated child in London. She also said that over time it has proven to be very ineffective so not really worth it anyway.

Not so much Indian parents but children who are either going to be visiting areas such as India very frequently or children who will be exposed to visitors from these areas very frequently - there is obviously often an overlap but not always...
It's only offered in certain London boroughs as well. Our children were not offered it but would be if they were born now.
It is not very effective though. We all had it at 14 or 15 and I had to have it again once I went to med school.

[loobylou]

That's interesting. She probably does come into a high risk category viz "occupational risk" but both her (NHS) GP and the local private hospital say they can't get the vaccine, so it looks like a trip to London in the holidays...

It's not part of the primary care vaccination programme anywhere so no GP will ever be able to get it. We refer to local centre (one of our local hospitals) but I have heard that there is a shortage.

[semb]

That's interesting. She probably does come into a high risk category viz "occupational risk" but both her (NHS) GP and the local private hospital say they can't get the vaccine, so it looks like a trip to London in the holidays...

It's not part of the primary care vaccination programme anywhere so no GP will ever be able to get it. We refer to local centre (one of our local hospitals) but I have heard that there is a shortage.

I tried to get this for Dd1 a few years back. At the time you could get it privately from travel clinics in London but doesn't seem as possible now since the shortage.

This is interesting: (Public Health England Vaccine update re eligibility criteria for BCG following supply problems)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ly2017.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;