For Europeans concerned by Brexit

[RedPanda]

Yeah I am secretly a member of the Tory cabinet. Guess which one?

I can say with certainty you aren't Gove, unless I've totally misunderstood your views on selective education.

[Surferfish]

Yeah I am secretly a member of the Tory cabinet. Guess which one?

Well I suppose given your name Rudd would be the obvious one. Has she been reinstated?

Seriously though, what did you mean about Cameron not wanting to win the election?

[Surferfish]

Yeah I am secretly a member of the Tory cabinet. Guess which one?

Well I suppose given your name Rudd would be the obvious one. Has she been reinstated?

She has!! So it is you then!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46238111" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[anotherdad]

Steve Baker has been putting himself in the spotlight a lot, although he did look very much like Rees-Mogg's bag carrier yesterday. I'm not convinced of his numerical reasoning though. "Definitely 48" became "48 plus around another dozen" became "it might be 48 by next week". Shambolic, and they're fiddling around playing party politics when there are much bigger things at stake.

Bucks is an interesting area when it comes to Brexit and it's two largest towns. Aylesbury Vale voted Leave and is represented by David Lidington, a Remainer and former Europe minister. High Wycombe voted Remain and is represented by Baker, one of the extreme Brexiteers. I wonder what his Wycombe constituents think of his pantomime act in the last two days?

[quasimodo]

Steve Baker has been putting himself in the spotlight a lot, although he did look very much like Rees-Mogg's bag carrier yesterday. I'm not convinced of his numerical reasoning though. "Definitely 48" became "48 plus around another dozen" became "it might be 48 by next week". Shambolic, and they're fiddling around playing party politics when there are much bigger things at stake.

Bucks is an interesting area when it comes to Brexit and it's two largest towns. Aylesbury Vale voted Leave and is represented by David Lidington, a Remainer and former Europe minister. High Wycombe voted Remain and is represented by Baker, one of the extreme Brexiteers. I wonder what his Wycombe constituents think of his pantomime act in the last two days?

I think you'll find there is a lot happening but most people are not aware of it.

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I used to watch "Yes Minister" and at the time I never took seriously the power of civil servants and I never truly believed politicians like Tony Benn or Barbara Castle in their battles in overcoming the civil service in getting their plans through.

Look at the reality of what has been going on.Our plebian master a remainer has had her civil servant ( a federal european from his Oxford days ) negotiating on our behalf secretly away from the cabinet and away from not one leave Brexit secretary but two, both of whom have had to resign.

Nearly half of the Conservative mp's are on the Government payroll many will have directorships in those business's who lobbied so hard for remain.Its not a coincidence that the present negotiated deal includes everything the city wanted.It doesn't matter if it is not what the plebs wanted.

Now I can understand why populism is on the rise.I think we need more of it.I was reading a BBC article on those who voted Brexit in Sunderland in 2016 and the fact nothing had changed for them in the last two years.This is the same in all those midlands and northern towns.

[Amber]

I think you'll find there is a lot happening but most people are not aware of it.

My friend who voted for Brexit kept on saying that before the deal was announced. I told him his faith was touching. Anyway, what is so great about people 'not being aware' of what is happening? This is our country for heaven's sake! Who are these charlatans and self-seeking moral bankrupts to gamble it away without us being aware of it? Isn't that meant to be the difference between a representative democracy and a dictatorship? Though I think most people agree now that an elected dictatorship is what we have.


Re Cameron (earlier question): When he offered the referendum he did it to appease the more racist factions in his own support base and prevent haemorrhaging of 'grass roots' support (and money). He did not think he would ever have to honour it as he did not think it possible that he would win another election outright. No one did. He was panicking as the exit poll results were released and the thing he was panicking about was the manifesto promise to hold a referendum. But even then he did not expect the electorate to be ....how shall I put it on this thread?....'persuaded' that leaving the EU would be a good thing.


And to quash this rumour before it even starts - nothing would persuade me to work for the Conservative party in any capacity whatsoever. I would be ashamed to hold my head up if I were one of these individuals who have brought our country to this and are know daggers drawn at their own leader. If we only had a credible opposition these people would be consigned to the political wasteland for decades. It is an indictment on our education system which fails to teach any kind of political science; and on our society which encourages individualism and celebrity worship over compassionate community and intelligent engagement with big issues. I think it is probably what we deserve to be honest, which makes it all the more tragic that no one with any power cares about it or even sees it. The UN yesterday delivered a damning indictment on the state of poverty in our country, and C4N was the only news organisation which headlined with it over the shenanigans of the ship of fools which the governing party has become.

If there is another referendum, I feel that those of us who feel passionately - on either side - owe it to our children to get out there and speak, because woeful ignorance of the real issues behind this disaster, which has made us a laughing stock of the world, is what got us here.

[Catseye]

Brexit is stupid.

And so it has proved to be.

[anotherdad]

I think you'll find there is a lot happening but most people are not aware of it.

My friend who voted for Brexit kept on saying that before the deal was announced. I told him his faith was touching. Anyway, what is so great about people 'not being aware' of what is happening? This is our country for heaven's sake! Who are these charlatans and self-seeking moral bankrupts to gamble it away without us being aware of it? Isn't that meant to be the difference between a representative democracy and a dictatorship? Though I think most people agree now that an elected dictatorship is what we have.


Re Cameron (earlier question): When he offered the referendum he did it to appease the more racist factions in his own support base and prevent haemorrhaging of 'grass roots' support (and money). He did not think he would ever have to honour it as he did not think it possible that he would win another election outright. No one did. He was panicking as the exit poll results were released and the thing he was panicking about was the manifesto promise to hold a referendum. But even then he did not expect the electorate to be ....how shall I put it on this thread?....'persuaded' that leaving the EU would be a good thing.


And to quash this rumour before it even starts - nothing would persuade me to work for the Conservative party in any capacity whatsoever. I would be ashamed to hold my head up if I were one of these individuals who have brought our country to this and are know daggers drawn at their own leader. If we only had a credible opposition these people would be consigned to the political wasteland for decades. It is an indictment on our education system which fails to teach any kind of political science; and on our society which encourages individualism and celebrity worship over compassionate community and intelligent engagement with big issues. I think it is probably what we deserve to be honest, which makes it all the more tragic that no one with any power cares about it or even sees it. The UN yesterday delivered a damning indictment on the state of poverty in our country, and C4N was the only news organisation which headlined with it over the shenanigans of the ship of fools which the governing party has become.

If there is another referendum, I feel that those of us who feel passionately - on either side - owe it to our children to get out there and speak, because woeful ignorance of the real issues behind this disaster, which has made us a laughing stock of the world, is what got us here.

+1

[quasimodo]

I think you'll find there is a lot happening but most people are not aware of it.

My friend who voted for Brexit kept on saying that before the deal was announced. I told him his faith was touching. Anyway, what is so great about people 'not being aware' of what is happening? This is our country for heaven's sake! Who are these charlatans and self-seeking moral bankrupts to gamble it away without us being aware of it? Isn't that meant to be the difference between a representative democracy and a dictatorship? Though I think most people agree now that an elected dictatorship is what we have.


Re Cameron (earlier question): When he offered the referendum he did it to appease the more racist factions in his own support base and prevent haemorrhaging of 'grass roots' support (and money). He did not think he would ever have to honour it as he did not think it possible that he would win another election outright. No one did. He was panicking as the exit poll results were released and the thing he was panicking about was the manifesto promise to hold a referendum. But even then he did not expect the electorate to be ....how shall I put it on this thread?....'persuaded' that leaving the EU would be a good thing.


And to quash this rumour before it even starts - nothing would persuade me to work for the Conservative party in any capacity whatsoever. I would be ashamed to hold my head up if I were one of these individuals who have brought our country to this and are know daggers drawn at their own leader. If we only had a credible opposition these people would be consigned to the political wasteland for decades. It is an indictment on our education system which fails to teach any kind of political science; and on our society which encourages individualism and celebrity worship over compassionate community and intelligent engagement with big issues. I think it is probably what we deserve to be honest, which makes it all the more tragic that no one with any power cares about it or even sees it. The UN yesterday delivered a damning indictment on the state of poverty in our country, and C4N was the only news organisation which headlined with it over the shenanigans of the ship of fools which the governing party has become.

If there is another referendum, I feel that those of us who feel passionately - on either side - owe it to our children to get out there and speak, because woeful ignorance of the real issues behind this disaster, which has made us a laughing stock of the world, is what got us here.

We live in polarised times.

https://www.politico.eu/article/british ... -semitism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... nell-tears" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What about the opposition.The Labour party led by a man who has sided,sympathised and supported terrorist organisations all his life from the IRA to Hamas and Hezbollah who himself is an anti semite and I use the international definition of anti semitism to judge him based on his past actions and existing views.If the Labour party was to root out such anti semites it would have to start at the top but there are far too many in the Labour party now to even begin the process.

The party is now controlled by momentum an organisation of the extreme left some of whom who share such values and take inspiration from the writings of Frederich Engels and Karl Max rather than the founding fathers of the party like Kier Hardie.Their guiding light is the dialectic process.From the thesis,antithesis to the synthesis repeating itself.

It will be years if ever before Labour can reclaim its soul.I have voted Labour in the past but I could never vote for the party now.

I wont say anything about UKIP except to say that both it and large parts of Labour now while on different extreme wings of the political spectrum share much in common.Whether it be their racism,intolerance or attacks on neo liberal globalisation.

The Liberal Democrats have their own difficulties whether it be the huge financial problems,a leader who is soon leaving and no really credible leader to replace him with, to their policies which do not have popular appeal.

Its sad to say but our politicians are a reflection of our society.What can we then say about our society ?

[Amber]

.Whether it be their racism,intolerance or attacks on neo liberal globalisation.

I consider myself the least racist, most tolerant person around. But please could you explain to me why you have linked these two things with criticising what you call neoliberal globalisation? Many opponents of both racism and intolerance are, like me, also very much opposed to neoliberalism as a dominant paradigm, and do not accept 'globalisation' (which I see as a contested construct) as A Good Thing in all its forms either (many say that it is shorthand for 'Americanisation'; and neoliberalism is rooted in American market economics too). I noted earlier that you called for a rise of populism, which also I find hard to reconcile with some of your other views - populism is responsible for some of the most challenging and difficult to swallow acts of racism and intolerance being witnessed across many countries.

Where I can agree with you is in your final sentence there; and as I said in my earlier post, it is important to try and empower young people to understand the complexities of politics so that they can engage meaningfully with the democratic process and avoid a situation like we face now - with an ineffective leader, surrounded by self-serving and traitorous idiots, sycophants and power-seekers; but with no effective opposition to challenge their slow implosion which threatens to take the country's credibility with it.