For Europeans concerned by Brexit

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Stimela
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Stimela »

quasimodo wrote: Faith in politics and politicians was low but now will be hitting rock bottom in many of those who stuck up two fingers to the establishment in the Brexit vote.Their lives have not got any better since the two years which have elapsed.Faith in democracy will fall further.

I wonder how this disaffection will effect itself in the future.
With you here all the way. Seems such a tragedy when the majority of people who voted 'Leave' made such a brave decision in the face of overwhelming odds. We have been badly let down by all the leaders of all the political parties who have been too weak to stand up to the EU and our own Civil Service. The saying 'Lions lead by Donkeys' springs to mind.

Can't help but feel that, given the prevailing mood, a new Centrist party who were strongly in favour of Brexit would clean up at the Polls. Not that there's much sign of that.
Stimela
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Stimela »

I suppose it is too late to alter the name of this thread to ‘For Older people concerned about remaining in the EU’ but they are becoming a persecuted caste.

From the ‘Question Time’ panellist who stated a few weeks ago that we should have another referendum because ‘’a million voters have died since the last one’’ (and only ‘leavers’ die remember), to the clamour to disenfranchise the over 65’s and instead give 16 year olds the vote, to the memorable phrase on an earlier post that ‘’all we will be left with is elderly Brits returning from the Costa’s’’ (have they really been hiding out in Coffee shops all this time?).

But remember who these people are. The over 50’s, 60’s and 70’s who were the demographic most likely to vote in favour of Brexit, were the children of the great Social Revolution of the 1960’s and 70’s, the generation of ‘Make Peace not War,’ or alternatively the Punk Era of ‘Anarchy in the UK.’ It came home to me when I was passing an old peoples home and they weren’t playing ‘Daisy, Daisy’ or ‘White Cliffs of Dover’ in the common room; no, blasting out from the Speakers was ‘Brown Sugar’ by the Stones (maybe they were trying to finish them off).
These are not people who knew a bygone era when Britain ‘Ruled the Waves’. These are people who knew only power cuts, the three day week and begging to the IMF to lend us a fiver and yet still they longed to be free of the EU yoke because they believed in our fundamental right to self- determination.

Contrast this with the current Student generation. Seriously what is wrong with these people? Students through the ages could always be relied on to rebel against authority but not these lot. The three main political parties, the bankers, the multinationals, the main broadcast media, their teachers and even the House of Lords tell them which way to vote and what is their response; ‘Yeah, Cool – Tell us where to sign.’ They can’t wait to start taking orders from their EU masters again. I can almost hear the slogan; ‘’What do we want? – To abide by EU Regulations including the Common Agricultural Policy- When do we want it? – …Err soon …. providing it doesn’t clash with our exams.’’ Mark Bolan famously sang; ‘’You won’t fool the Children of the Revolution’’ and you won’t, but you’d fool the current lot with the ‘one card trick.’

The ‘oldies’ are the 'True Revolutionaries' and not an irrelevance to be shunted off to the knackers yard to make way for the ‘New Conformists.’ They are to paraphrase The Monkees ‘The old generation and they’ve got something to say’
Anyway enough of the rant. Nurse says it’s time for my nap.
quasimodo
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by quasimodo »

Stimela wrote:I suppose it is too late to alter the name of this thread to ‘For Older people concerned about remaining in the EU’ but they are becoming a persecuted caste.

From the ‘Question Time’ panellist who stated a few weeks ago that we should have another referendum because ‘’a million voters have died since the last one’’ (and only ‘leavers’ die remember), to the clamour to disenfranchise the over 65’s and instead give 16 year olds the vote, to the memorable phrase on an earlier post that ‘’all we will be left with is elderly Brits returning from the Costa’s’’ (have they really been hiding out in Coffee shops all this time?).

But remember who these people are. The over 50’s, 60’s and 70’s who were the demographic most likely to vote in favour of Brexit, were the children of the great Social Revolution of the 1960’s and 70’s, the generation of ‘Make Peace not War,’ or alternatively the Punk Era of ‘Anarchy in the UK.’ It came home to me when I was passing an old peoples home and they weren’t playing ‘Daisy, Daisy’ or ‘White Cliffs of Dover’ in the common room; no, blasting out from the Speakers was ‘Brown Sugar’ by the Stones (maybe they were trying to finish them off).
These are not people who knew a bygone era when Britain ‘Ruled the Waves’. These are people who knew only power cuts, the three day week and begging to the IMF to lend us a fiver and yet still they longed to be free of the EU yoke because they believed in our fundamental right to self- determination.

Contrast this with the current Student generation. Seriously what is wrong with these people? Students through the ages could always be relied on to rebel against authority but not these lot. The three main political parties, the bankers, the multinationals, the main broadcast media, their teachers and even the House of Lords tell them which way to vote and what is their response; ‘Yeah, Cool – Tell us where to sign.’ They can’t wait to start taking orders from their EU masters again. I can almost hear the slogan; ‘’What do we want? – To abide by EU Regulations including the Common Agricultural Policy- When do we want it? – …Err soon …. providing it doesn’t clash with our exams.’’ Mark Bolan famously sang; ‘’You won’t fool the Children of the Revolution’’ and you won’t, but you’d fool the current lot with the ‘one card trick.’

The ‘oldies’ are the 'True Revolutionaries' and not an irrelevance to be shunted off to the knackers yard to make way for the ‘New Conformists.’ They are to paraphrase The Monkees ‘The old generation and they’ve got something to say’
Anyway enough of the rant. Nurse says it’s time for my nap.
:) Been pelting down with rain this morning and been in it once for the morning school bus drop off but you brought a smile to my face.You do appreciate one of my unflattering nicknames at school was "flower pot".
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

Abraham Lincoln
piggys
Posts: 1636
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:29 am

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by piggys »

I blagged my way in to an over 18s Clash gig at the age of 14. The Rainbow, Finsbury Park. It set the bar for the rest of my youth.
I voted remain. Maybe I prove your point. :wink:
Surferfish
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Surferfish »

Stimela wrote:These are people who knew only power cuts, the three day week and begging to the IMF to lend us a fiver and yet still they longed to be free of the EU yoke because they believed in our fundamental right to self- determination.
That's a very well written post Stimela with some valid points about the older and younger generations but there's still one thing about Brexit that I've never quite understood.

I can see how all this talk about self-determination, sovereignty and taking back control might appeal ideologically to some people, but what benefits will it actually bring to real ordinary British people in their real lives? Will it provide them with more secure better paid jobs, a better health service, better schools, better transport systems, a wider range of food and other goods in the shops at cheaper prices? If so how?

Or to ask another question can you give any examples from the last 30 years, where the UK government wanted to take some action which would have benefited the lives of the majority of its citizens, but were prevented from doing so because we were a member of the EU?
ConfusedFather
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:35 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by ConfusedFather »

Surferfish wrote: Or to ask another question can you give any examples from the last 30 years, where the UK government wanted to take some action which would have benefited the lives of the majority of its citizens, but were prevented from doing so because we were a member of the EU?
Forget it, many tend to voluntarily ignore that all/most EU regulations and laws could have been vetoed by UK elected representatives. In the UK, like in many countries, elected representatives tend to use the EU to pass unpopular laws and then claim innocence and outrage. But the facts remain that nothing could have been done against the will of the UK government, they all signed up to everything, which means it's the UK electors' fault if they do not like policies. Vote for ultra liberal governments, you get an ultra liberal EU, vote for left wing representatives you'll get left wing EU policies too.

Anyhow, we are now on track for a hard exit crash (not a doomsday one, let's be realistic, most things will be fine at first).
I can't wait to be able to eat chlorinated chicken, hormone boosted beef, Chinese chemicals, because after all, regulation stand between us and the glory of the country. The good old days when the country was strong, when the likes of JRM ruled.. You know, the Victorian times, when everything was so good. Where the majority had the luck, the grace, ,the honour of eating chalk in their bread, of drinking polluted water and have the immense pleasure of working 18 hours a day for their benevolent overlords. This is what this country lacks, happy, positive thinking thralls that work for the greater good of everything but themselves. Who needs a nany state when your boss tells you what to do!
Aaah, the Victorian times, who would not wish for that bliss?
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Amber »

ConfusedFather wrote:Aaah, the Victorian times, who would not wish for that bliss?
Well on the positive side, there would not be an 11+ , nor a childhood obesity crisis, because all the children would be in the workhouse or up the chimneys.
Stimela
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Stimela »

ConfusedFather wrote: Anyhow, we are now on track for a hard exit crash (not a doomsday one, let's be realistic, most things will be fine at first).
I can't wait to be able to eat chlorinated chicken, hormone boosted beef, Chinese chemicals, because after all, regulation stand between us and the glory of the country. The good old days when the country was strong, when the likes of JRM ruled.. You know, the Victorian times, when everything was so good. Where the majority had the luck, the grace, ,the honour of eating chalk in their bread, of drinking polluted water and have the immense pleasure of working 18 hours a day for their benevolent overlords. This is what this country lacks, happy, positive thinking thralls that work for the greater good of everything but themselves. Who needs a nany state when your boss tells you what to do!
Aaah, the Victorian times, who would not wish for that bliss?
I take it from your post that you don't think Jeremy Corbyn stands much of a chance then?
ConfusedFather
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:35 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by ConfusedFather »

By an incredible coincidence, my ironic post was confirmed today.... :evil:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-uk- ... al-2018-10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The US Trade Representative sent a to letter to US Congress on Tuesday, formally announcing President Trump's intention to negotiate a free trade deal with the UK once it has left the EU.

The letter states that any UK-EU trade deal must respect the US' Trade Priorities and Accountability Act, which requires the "reducing or eliminating [of] unjustified sanitary or phytosanitary restrictions" and "other unjustified technical barriers to trade."
This would allow chlorinated chicken, mega hormone beef, and also much higher thresholds of rat hair, maggots or mould in our food and our children's. But hey, we could get a free trade deal with that, to replace a better one and safer one that we decided to ditch... Sounds legit.
Oh, and if you think the ones in charge will protect your kids without the EU's safety net of regulations, think again:
However, Fox has not explicitly ruled out accepting US food standards in a post-Brexit trade agreement.

He said in November he had "no objection" to UK consumers eating food products which are currently banned by the EU, like chlorine-washed chicken, after Britain leaves the EU.

But as I was commenting to a colleague today, cheap food is a good thing, a great thing actually. Think how lucky people were in the Victorian era, when they could have great cheap food, full of plaster and alun! Some reminders of human nature when there are no regulations:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25259505" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (I guess it's an evil leftist plot promoting bureaucracy)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03dk5ww" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



edit: some more data, which shows that americans only get 10x more food poisonning, 6x more deaths...
The US reports higher rates of illness from foodborne illness than in the UK. Annually, 14.7% (48m) of the US population suffer from an illness, versus 1.5% (1m) in the UK. This is nearly ten times the percentage of population.

The US reports higher rates of deaths from foodborne illness than in the UK. The annual death rate in the US is 3000 per annum, versus 500 in the UK. [The US population is about 5 times the size of the UK.]

The US Centre of Disease Control and Prevention reports around 380 deaths in the US each year attributed to foodborne salmonella poisoning. The most recent epidemiological lab data from Public Health England shows no deaths in England and Wales from salmonella between 2005 and 2015. Salmonella food poisoning is most commonly caused by consumption of contaminated food of animal origin, such as beef, chicken, milk, fish or eggs.

The Food Standards Agency recently updated its guidance to say that eating soft-boiled British Lion Mark eggs is now safe, thanks to a dramatic reduction in the presence of salmonella. By contrast, the US Food and Drug Administration still advises US consumers to hard boil their eggs due to salmonella fears. They report 79,000 cases of illness and 30 deaths a year from salmonella infected eggs.

Campylobacter – another food poisoning pathogen found in animal products, especially chicken – causes 1.3m illnesses every year in the US, and their frequency of outbreak is on the rise. The most recent US laboratory-confirmed infection data shows an infection rate from campylobacter of 6,289 per 100k of population. By contrast, Public Health England lab data for England and Wales from 2015 showed a campylobacter infection rate of 96.22 per 100k population. In addition, the Food Standards Agency has reported a 17% decline in laboratory reports of campylobacter in the UK in 2016, saving the economy an estimated £13m each year from reduced with NHS costs and fewer days off work.

The US reports an average 1591 cases of listeriosis a year. This compares to an average of 177 a year in England and Wales. Listeriosis is usually caught from eating food such as unpasteurised milk, soft cheeses and chilled ready to eat foods like pâté.
Say goodbye to soft boiled eggs (I am sure a true Brit only goes for HARD boiled eggs anyhow)


I don't have the UK data links, but the US government CDC link with some data is here: https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/foodborne-germs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Together, we are weaker, alone, we are stronger.
RedPanda
Posts: 283
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:56 am

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by RedPanda »

Food Quality Technician. Am I getting warmer Confused Father? :)
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