For Europeans concerned by Brexit

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quasimodo
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by quasimodo »

Amber wrote:The chancellor acknowledges that we will be worse off under any imaginable Brexit scenario. I can't beat the words of the Campaign to Remain in Europe at this point:
Just. Call. It. Off. FFS.
Chancellor aware that government is leading Britain to a poorer future - link
Project fear in operation again. A daily scoop we will be getting one a day.Where did all the fears about a immediate recession on voting leave go, the growth in unemploymentet etc etc etc .I am beginning to sound like the King of Siam.I recall all the mania and mantras about not joining the euro,the erm it goes on and on.I am going to go out and buy my stocks of water don’t want to be dieing of dehydration now.

What happened when we joined the European Union in the mid 1970’s we had a dislocation then.We somehow survived jettisoning our existing trading relationships and beginning new ones.Does any one seriously believe we will be poorer what they all mean is in the short term until we have new trading relationships we will not be as rich as we could have been under existing relationships.

Throughout its history Britain has been a trading nation I am sure it will survive and flourish.

I haven’t gone on the link it was enough for me wading through the dross in the agreements cobbled by our esteemed PM and her sidekicks.I am now going to use my “best endeavours” to never doubt the sincerity of our political classes.After all when you have Tony Blair, John Major, the guardian , the BBC and now the Daily Mail in the same camp it is telling you something.Vote Vote and Vote again until we get the right result. This is the EU mantra isn’t it ?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

Abraham Lincoln
Surferfish
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Surferfish »

quasimodo wrote:After all when you have Tony Blair, John Major, the guardian , the BBC and now the Daily Mail in the same camp it is telling you something.
Indeed. If a former Conservative PM, a former Labour PM, The Guardian, the BBC and even The Daily Mail are all advising the same thing does it not make you wonder if they perhaps have a valid point? :?
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Amber »

quasimodo wrote:I haven’t gone on the link
quasimodo wrote:Project fear in operation again.
So how do you know?

I think you are second only to the US president in assuring us that anything you don't agree with must be false, Quasimodo. :wink: :lol:

FYI it was actually the Chancellor's own words. I am not sure he would be pleased to be accused of being part of 'Project Fear', whatever that is.
Loopyloulou
Posts: 878
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:20 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Loopyloulou »

Amber wrote:So how do you know?
I think it was leaked a couple of weeks ago, wasn't it, that this would be the tactic? A new news story every day between now and the next parliamentary vote to persuade us to agree with Mother Theresa?

Personally I am very surprised that Project Fear is being resurrected. After its abject failure last time, I would have thought they would have listened to the psychologists who say that people are better persuaded by positive arguments rather than negative threats. Why aren't we hearing more of the real benefits the EU has to offer, rather than being warned of the consequences of leaving? Better to admit that the arguments are largely political and to stress the positive ones.

(I see that HSBC is in on the act. I received a circular from them today which, on the subject of the effects of a "no deal" Brexit, included the following sentence: “The economy would in effect suffer another currency shock, just as it did in the wake of the EU referendum in 2016, which precipitated the present lengthy period of sluggish growth.” The sentence would read very differently with the editorial adjective "sluggish" taken out...)
Loopy
BucksBornNBred
Posts: 1031
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:01 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by BucksBornNBred »

quasimodo wrote:After all when you have Tony Blair, John Major, the guardian , the BBC and now the Daily Mail in the same camp it is telling you something.Vote Vote and Vote again until we get the right result. This is the EU mantra isn’t it ?
But isn't there a new left wing editor at the DM? I have noticed a distinct change in the paper recently (I know, I know but the only other free papers are left wing and I am not going there). I think 17.4 million people were naive to think they would be allowed to leave (but we Brits play fair and expect others to). FCOL when has the EU ever played fair? They could see our weakness as soon as we started infighting and started shooting ourselves in the foot. I really am at a loss now... I was brought up knowing it was my duty to vote (I have never not) but now I really don't understand why I should as no-one listens. Voting makes no difference (I should have learned that during the Blair years but I carried on regardless). FWIW I think this could have worked out if everyone didn't have their own agenda (Ooh, maybe I could be PM; ooh maybe I could get Gibralta; ooh maybe we can show other countries this is a silly idea; ooh ....). So sad.
quasimodo
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by quasimodo »

BucksBornNBred wrote:
quasimodo wrote:After all when you have Tony Blair, John Major, the guardian , the BBC and now the Daily Mail in the same camp it is telling you something.Vote Vote and Vote again until we get the right result. This is the EU mantra isn’t it ?
But isn't there a new left wing editor at the DM? I have noticed a distinct change in the paper recently (I know, I know but the only other free papers are left wing and I am not going there). I think 17.4 million people were naive to think they would be allowed to leave (but we Brits play fair and expect others to). FCOL when has the EU ever played fair? They could see our weakness as soon as we started infighting and started shooting ourselves in the foot. I really am at a loss now... I was brought up knowing it was my duty to vote (I have never not) but now I really don't understand why I should as no-one listens. Voting makes no difference (I should have learned that during the Blair years but I carried on regardless). FWIW I think this could have worked out if everyone didn't have their own agenda (Ooh, maybe I could be PM; ooh maybe I could get Gibralta; ooh maybe we can show other countries this is a silly idea; ooh ....). So sad.
I think many people are thinking like you.What was the point of voting ? Myself included.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

Abraham Lincoln
loobylou
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:04 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by loobylou »

BucksBornNBred wrote:
quasimodo wrote:After all when you have Tony Blair, John Major, the guardian , the BBC and now the Daily Mail in the same camp it is telling you something.Vote Vote and Vote again until we get the right result. This is the EU mantra isn’t it ?
But isn't there a new left wing editor at the DM? I have noticed a distinct change in the paper recently (I know, I know but the only other free papers are left wing and I am not going there). I think 17.4 million people were naive to think they would be allowed to leave (but we Brits play fair and expect others to). FCOL when has the EU ever played fair? They could see our weakness as soon as we started infighting and started shooting ourselves in the foot. I really am at a loss now... I was brought up knowing it was my duty to vote (I have never not) but now I really don't understand why I should as no-one listens. Voting makes no difference (I should have learned that during the Blair years but I carried on regardless). FWIW I think this could have worked out if everyone didn't have their own agenda (Ooh, maybe I could be PM; ooh maybe I could get Gibralta; ooh maybe we can show other countries this is a silly idea; ooh ....). So sad.
Left wing editor of the Daily Mail? Are you serious? I think you could possibly be referring to the fact that he's marginally less of a fascist racist bas***d than his predecessor? I'm glad if the tone of the paper has changed from its previous hate-filled rhetoric but I doubt that it's managed to reach even close to centre ground...
quasimodo
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:47 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by quasimodo »

Loopyloulou wrote:
Amber wrote:So how do you know?
I think it was leaked a couple of weeks ago, wasn't it, that this would be the tactic? A new news story every day between now and the next parliamentary vote to persuade us to agree with Mother Theresa?

Personally I am very surprised that Project Fear is being resurrected. After its abject failure last time, I would have thought they would have listened to the psychologists who say that people are better persuaded by positive arguments rather than negative threats. Why aren't we hearing more of the real benefits the EU has to offer, rather than being warned of the consequences of leaving? Better to admit that the arguments are largely political and to stress the positive ones.

(I see that HSBC is in on the act. I received a circular from them today which, on the subject of the effects of a "no deal" Brexit, included the following sentence: “The economy would in effect suffer another currency shock, just as it did in the wake of the EU referendum in 2016, which precipitated the present lengthy period of sluggish growth.” The sentence would read very differently with the editorial adjective "sluggish" taken out...)


This was the project fear timetable when it was leaked.

November 28: Economy
November 29: Security
November 30: International trade
December 1: Digital
December 2: The Brexit deal
December 3: Money
December 4: Immigration
December 5: Transport
December 6: Industrial strategy
December 7: Brexit for the whole U.K.
December 8: Consumers
December 9: May vs Corbyn Debate
December 10: Agriculture and fish

Economist Andrew Lilico has pointed out that in its analysis, the Treasury makes three remarkable assumptions.

Assumes there is no economic gain at all from controlling our own policy compared with the EU doing it.
Assumes there is no gain from “Future domestic policy choices.”
Assumes GDP gains from new trade deals with non-EU countries are only 10% of what the EU estimated those gains would be.
These are clearly ludicrous assumptions as no credible economist assumes there are zero economic gains to be made from liberating companies from EU red tape.

This was what the Treasury said during the Referendum.

“Britain’s economy would be tipped into a year-long recession, with at least 500,000 jobs lost and GDP around 3.6% lower, following a vote to leave the EU, new Treasury analysis launched today by the Prime Minister and Chancellor shows.”

The standard definition of a recession is two quarters of falling GDP growth.The expectation was it would last four quarters.Plenty of other forecasts at the time from the IMF and our own Bank of England governor which were all wrong.

Forgive me for being a cynic.

All this information is available on a number of websites.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

Abraham Lincoln
BucksBornNBred
Posts: 1031
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:01 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by BucksBornNBred »

loobylou wrote: Left wing editor of the Daily Mail? Are you serious? I think you could possibly be referring to the fact that he's marginally less of a fascist racist bas***d than his predecessor? I'm glad if the tone of the paper has changed from its previous hate-filled rhetoric but I doubt that it's managed to reach even close to centre ground...
The DM is not hate filled or fascist or racist, and it has moved to centre ground. For the record, some readers are able to look beyond the spin; if it is an interesting story then I seek out some facts. My DH (like most) hates the DM but I keep telling him the same stories are covered in The Times, just presented in a different way. And they are, because I read both. As for tone... well, I am just glad there a few publications that don't ascribe to Think-Speak.
Stimela
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Re: For Europeans concerned by Brexit

Post by Stimela »

Surferfish wrote:
quasimodo wrote:After all when you have Tony Blair, John Major, the guardian , the BBC and now the Daily Mail in the same camp it is telling you something.
Indeed. If a former Conservative PM, a former Labour PM, The Guardian, the BBC and even The Daily Mail are all advising the same thing does it not make you wonder if they perhaps have a valid point? :?
The Daily Mail is not advising the same thing or perhaps you haven’t read the papers recently? They are backing Teresa’s sell out. The others want a second referendum.

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So no I don’t need a moment to think whether they have a valid point.
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