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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:31 am 
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Oh, and I wonder how many engineers from Sydney actually want to come and work here anyway?! Not many sane ones, I imagine.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:46 am 
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RedPanda wrote:
Surferfish wrote:
If we had a second referendum what options do you think should be on it?

Remain on the same terms or leave under whatever deal is negotiated. If the same terms are not on offer, we leave.

Messy, I know. :)


Surely the choice should be between (i) leaving on WTO terms and (ii) remaining on the terms of Mrs May's agreement?
ie do we accept Mrs May's compromise or not? If not, we leave.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Loopyloulou wrote:
RedPanda wrote:
Surferfish wrote:
If we had a second referendum what options do you think should be on it?

Remain on the same terms or leave under whatever deal is negotiated. If the same terms are not on offer, we leave.

Messy, I know. :)


Surely the choice should be between (i) leaving on WTO terms and (ii) remaining on the terms of Mrs May's agreement?
ie do we accept Mrs May's agreement or not? If not, we leave.

I was approaching this pragmatically. I assume WTO terms would be a disaster. I'll admit, I don't know. In fact, I'm not qualified to have a say in any of this. :)

Seriously though LLL, I do see your point. There can only be two questions. I do think that TM has probably got close to whatever can be negotiated. There are too many opinions (and mandates) in the EU for it to be comfortable for us. I see Spain are taking a stand on Gibraltar now. TM's agreement (as it stands) may not be good enough for the EU anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:10 pm 
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RedPanda wrote:
In fact, I'm not qualified to have a say in any of this. :)


That's a good argument against a second referendum :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Loopyloulou wrote:
RedPanda wrote:
In fact, I'm not qualified to have a say in any of this. :)


That's a good argument against a second referendum :wink:


No, that's a good argument for ignoring the results of the first one!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Surferfish wrote:
Loopyloulou wrote:
RedPanda wrote:
In fact, I'm not qualified to have a say in any of this. :)


That's a good argument against a second referendum :wink:


No, that's a good argument for ignoring the results of the first one!

Let’s have best of three or best of five. That’s what normally happens in Europe keep having referendums until you get the result that suits you.Very democratic.

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In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:08 pm 
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quasimodo wrote:
Let’s have best of three or best of five. That’s what normally happens in Europe keep having referendums until you get the result that suits you.Very democratic.

Three, five.... forty-eight.

:? :?: :idea: Sorry, came over all Steve Baker with my counting there.

I turn 45 this year, so I'm looking forward to Steve's "Happy 48th Birthday" card.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:38 pm 
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quasimodo wrote:
Let’s have best of three or best of five. That’s what normally happens in Europe keep having referendums until you get the result that suits you.Very democratic.

I never get that argument quasimodo. I'm pretty sure those who voted for Brexit, did so with at least a couple of different outcomes in mind. It seems to me that putting the actual outcome to a referendum would be more democratic than not doing so. It isn't the same question afterall. I would even go as far as to say that there would be movement both ways.

I might vote leave. I'm getting older every day :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:33 pm 
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I'm generally in agreement with that. Now we know what the options are it shouldn't be beyond the with of the Electoral Commission to frame a question around "rank the following in order of preference: stay in, leave under the terms of the negotiated deal or leave with out a deal". Or at least so the elections expert on R4 last week seemed to think. That's probably too complicated for TM though who clearly prefers very simple questions even when they don't go anywhere near expressing the problem at hand.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:45 pm 
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It should just be 2 questions IMO, every voter to answer both.

1. Should the UK Remain in or Leave the EU?
2. If the UK were to leave, should they leave under the negotiated deal or no deal?

The results of question 2 are only applied if more than 50% vote leave in question 1.

Now that we all know more about what's involved I think people deserve a re-vote. It's not a case of best of 3 or 5, but everyone was too ill-informed and misled for the first vote to be set in stone for ever more IMO.

Surely it wouldn't be that complicated to come up with something like that?


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