Summer Born
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Re: Summer Born
I sent you a message about half an hour ago doodles. You know I would never offend you deliberately.
Maybe we should stick to discussing recipes. I have done a really good potato and rosemary sourdough today.
Maybe we should stick to discussing recipes. I have done a really good potato and rosemary sourdough today.
Re: Summer Born
Sounds like it would go well with my chicken casserole 
I have just seen your message and have replied.
I have just seen your message and have replied.
Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad !
Re: Summer Born
Oh dear. I’m just catching up having been away a couple of days. I do seem to have opened a can of worms!
What is right for one child and family isn’t necessarily right for another. I was interesting in how children who are young for the year have coped. It can also be a disadvantage being old for the year as more is expected of them.
What is right for one child and family isn’t necessarily right for another. I was interesting in how children who are young for the year have coped. It can also be a disadvantage being old for the year as more is expected of them.
Re: Summer Born
Fascinating read! There is no ‘one size fits all’. Great to see differing opinions celebrated on this thread
Re: Summer Born
Back on topic.
I have a summer born boy who started school the term he was 5. So only one term in Reception and was one of 12 summer-borns who joined 25 children who had already had one/two terms at school. Our son turned 5 that summer holiday and then it was into Year One and spelling tests etc.
Socially, emotionally and physically we was all over the place. Falling out of doors, tripping down steps, very weepy and tired. He did not know any other children in the class and lots of friendships were already established so it took him a while to make friends. Academically, he was bright but just wanted to play, explore and discover. He was rarely first to do any 'pencil and paper' tasks.
Fast forward to Year 6. There were 37 in the year group. So a class of Year 6s and the 7 youngest were in the mixed Y5/6 class (23 Y5s, 7 Y6s). DS was in the Y5/6 class. However, 10 children from the year group gained Grammar School places. 8 girls (all autumn born) and the 2 summer born boys in the Y5/6 class.
DS started at his (then) Super selective local Grammar where all boys take a language GCSE in Year 9. DS was 13 when he sat his first GCSE, 14 when he took his 2nd and 15 when he took his remaining 10 GCSEs. He will be 17 when he sits his A levels.
He has been fine academically. He still seems emotionally very young compared to his peers. I am glad he started school the term he was 5 rather than the year he was 5. He really benefited being in a pre-school/nursery environment for longer. Those two terms were the one and only time in his schooling where he has been the oldest.
I have a summer born boy who started school the term he was 5. So only one term in Reception and was one of 12 summer-borns who joined 25 children who had already had one/two terms at school. Our son turned 5 that summer holiday and then it was into Year One and spelling tests etc.
Socially, emotionally and physically we was all over the place. Falling out of doors, tripping down steps, very weepy and tired. He did not know any other children in the class and lots of friendships were already established so it took him a while to make friends. Academically, he was bright but just wanted to play, explore and discover. He was rarely first to do any 'pencil and paper' tasks.
Fast forward to Year 6. There were 37 in the year group. So a class of Year 6s and the 7 youngest were in the mixed Y5/6 class (23 Y5s, 7 Y6s). DS was in the Y5/6 class. However, 10 children from the year group gained Grammar School places. 8 girls (all autumn born) and the 2 summer born boys in the Y5/6 class.
DS started at his (then) Super selective local Grammar where all boys take a language GCSE in Year 9. DS was 13 when he sat his first GCSE, 14 when he took his 2nd and 15 when he took his remaining 10 GCSEs. He will be 17 when he sits his A levels.
He has been fine academically. He still seems emotionally very young compared to his peers. I am glad he started school the term he was 5 rather than the year he was 5. He really benefited being in a pre-school/nursery environment for longer. Those two terms were the one and only time in his schooling where he has been the oldest.
Last edited by Blitz on Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Summer Born
Our DS1 (August-born) had a similar start - one term in Reception the summer he turned 5 having worked up through playgroup to 4 mornings a week. He seemed fine socially and academically, although looking back with the benefit of hindsight he probably missed out on school sport (being short and the youngest in the year he never got into any school teams, despite being the only one of my DC with any sporting interest or talent at all!) and also benefited hugely from a (planned) pre-uni gap Year in Industry in the course of which he matured greatly (while still living at home but working in a local engineering firm) to the point that (alarmingly for me!) he planned a solo round-the-world trip leaving on his 19th birthday for a month!Blitz wrote:Back on topic.
I have a summer born boy who started school the term he was 5. So only one term in Reception and was one of 12 summer-borns who joined 25 children who had already had one/two terms at school. Our son turned 5 that summer holiday and then it was into Year One and spelling tests etc.
Re: Summer Born
I have an October born son and an August one, so one at each end of the school year. I didn’t really notice a difference until it came to their times tables - October son had learnt them all by the end of Y3 and August son had only just mastered them by the end of Y4.
SATs wise October son scored between 2 - 5 points better on different areas. Their CATs results had the same mean score, although they varied across the sections. Although August son in school years took longer to learn his times tables, he scored 10 points higher in his Y7 assessment that he has just done - they are both at the same school so imagine the tests to be similar.
Emotionally, I would say that the August son is more able to mix and make friends, but this is more down to their personalities rather than when they started school.
I do believe that August son was further behind October son during the earlier years at primary school, but it becomes less noticeable as they grow older. I’m a June birthday, and haven’t been affected by doing my GCSEs at 15, and in effect ‘leaving school’ at 15 as all the exams were over before I turned 16. There are plenty of summer children who go on to get degrees, great jobs etc. so there comes a point where the ‘gap’ levels out.
SATs wise October son scored between 2 - 5 points better on different areas. Their CATs results had the same mean score, although they varied across the sections. Although August son in school years took longer to learn his times tables, he scored 10 points higher in his Y7 assessment that he has just done - they are both at the same school so imagine the tests to be similar.
Emotionally, I would say that the August son is more able to mix and make friends, but this is more down to their personalities rather than when they started school.
I do believe that August son was further behind October son during the earlier years at primary school, but it becomes less noticeable as they grow older. I’m a June birthday, and haven’t been affected by doing my GCSEs at 15, and in effect ‘leaving school’ at 15 as all the exams were over before I turned 16. There are plenty of summer children who go on to get degrees, great jobs etc. so there comes a point where the ‘gap’ levels out.
Re: Summer Born
It is of course true that 'one size' does not 'fit all'; but education systems cannot be individually tailored to suit the perfect moment for each child to start school. All the best international evidence tells us that four is too young and there is absolutely nothing to be lost and potentially a great deal to be gained by delaying formal schooling until children are 6 or 7. Here is a summary of a Cambridge university research paper on the subject - this was the driver behind the 2013 open letter by 130 ECE experts to the Daily Telegraph calling for a change to school starting age.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussi ... e-evidence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Government ignored this as politicians of all parties have ignored successive calls to look at the evidence of damage done to children by early formal schooling. The damage is disproportionately borne by the most disadvantaged children who do not begin school with the cultural and social capital to access the increasingly academic curriculum.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 110444.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This, more recent study (Exeter University), concludes that the youngest children in a group of early school starters are at high risk of mental health issues.
The research is all out there; it is conclusive and it is mounting. Young children (by this I mean children up to 6 or 7) would be best served by a total restructuring of EY education to reflect their unique developmental needs. This means outdoor time, lots of play, and a democratic investment in their own learning (giving them space to decide what to do, rather than being told what to do). The career structure of nursery and EY staff needs to be robustly supported to attain this, and investment which is currently going into Reception and Y1 classes needs diverting into high quality nursery provision.
Individual summer born children who are lucky enough to be born into homes like those detailed on this forum will probably do just fine if they are made to go to school at 4; but the hugest majority do not fall into this category and are very poorly served by our nation's maverick insistence that we know better than the rest of the world, and than a huge body of psychological and pedagogical opinion. Someone in power needs to join the dots and look at the pressure to start 'pre-reading' and 'pre-number' skills as young as 2, and the terrible crisis in mental health among teenagers.
https://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery- ... on-warning" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When even the OECD, who like to measure everything and arguably drive much of the stuff I complain about, are warning that little children should not be made to engage in formal learning, then it really is time to sit up and take notice.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/discussi ... e-evidence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Government ignored this as politicians of all parties have ignored successive calls to look at the evidence of damage done to children by early formal schooling. The damage is disproportionately borne by the most disadvantaged children who do not begin school with the cultural and social capital to access the increasingly academic curriculum.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 110444.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This, more recent study (Exeter University), concludes that the youngest children in a group of early school starters are at high risk of mental health issues.
The research is all out there; it is conclusive and it is mounting. Young children (by this I mean children up to 6 or 7) would be best served by a total restructuring of EY education to reflect their unique developmental needs. This means outdoor time, lots of play, and a democratic investment in their own learning (giving them space to decide what to do, rather than being told what to do). The career structure of nursery and EY staff needs to be robustly supported to attain this, and investment which is currently going into Reception and Y1 classes needs diverting into high quality nursery provision.
Individual summer born children who are lucky enough to be born into homes like those detailed on this forum will probably do just fine if they are made to go to school at 4; but the hugest majority do not fall into this category and are very poorly served by our nation's maverick insistence that we know better than the rest of the world, and than a huge body of psychological and pedagogical opinion. Someone in power needs to join the dots and look at the pressure to start 'pre-reading' and 'pre-number' skills as young as 2, and the terrible crisis in mental health among teenagers.
https://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/nursery- ... on-warning" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When even the OECD, who like to measure everything and arguably drive much of the stuff I complain about, are warning that little children should not be made to engage in formal learning, then it really is time to sit up and take notice.
Re: Summer Born
I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head here Amber: this forum (by definition) overwhelmingly attracts aspirational education-minded parents whose 4-year olds will already (on average, barring SEN/disabilities) be well ahead in attention, in vocabulary skills, in having experienced rich environments ("rich" in the sense of varied and interesting, not necessarily money - we had a great collection of charity-shop books and toys!). If there is a gap, we will make sure to fill it with our time and/or our money.Amber wrote:
Individual summer born children who are lucky enough to be born into homes like those detailed on this forum will probably do just fine
Also I'm sure that when I, or my older DC started school there was less pressure and still more play (even if not quite up to the Scandinavian Arcadia - but then we probably also had back gardens in which to indulge the outdoors , and were expected to walk home alone from the age of 5)
Early years experiences certainly are the vital foundation and are much under-rated
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Dollydripmat
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Re: Summer Born
My DD1 is summer born. She was too young to be st school. She didn’t thrive the first few years , words, reading , maths all were a struggle. It started to make sense in Y3. My nephew (also a summer born) didn’t go to school until 6 (US) it hasn’t disadvantaged him at all. Interestingly he is back in the UK system and appears to be at the same level as DD1.
Amber I agree with all your posts , I wish we had a similar system in the UK. Having had DD2 at a nursery I can vouch for your view....high viz were mandatory a long with a long list of checklists before allowing the kids to do an activity!
Amber I agree with all your posts , I wish we had a similar system in the UK. Having had DD2 at a nursery I can vouch for your view....high viz were mandatory a long with a long list of checklists before allowing the kids to do an activity!