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 Post subject: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:44 am 
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An interesting read:

For millions of Europeans, the war did not end in 1918
Our narrative of the armistice is not the only one. In the east conflict continued, fuelled by the crumbling of empires

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tfsxgHPL3w


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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:30 am 
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JaneEyre wrote:
An interesting read:

For millions of Europeans, the war did not end in 1918
Our narrative of the armistice is not the only one. In the east conflict continued, fuelled by the crumbling of empires

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tfsxgHPL3w


You are right there are many different narratives.I don't always agree with Shashi Tharoors narrative but its hard to disagree with much of what is written in this article.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33317368

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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:03 am 
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But surely the actual "war" ended then? (DS is at school so I can't ask my resident expert!)

As an aside, I am feeling really annoyed this year as I have not found one poppy seller and I have seen very few poppy wearers... I assumed this would be an important year where we can celebrate the end of the war and display our gratitude to all those men who fought (not just died) for our freedom.


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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:21 am 
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The war formally ended in 1919 and there are many war memorials around the country with 1914-1919 on them accordingly.

I sense a change in the attitude to the poppy. Sadly, it's a symbol that has been appropriated by the lunatic fringe as being synonymous with patriotism and there are many and varied examples of one-upmanship when it comes to displaying one's patriotism (sorry, remembrance). For these people if you're not driving round with a 12-inch plastic poppy stuck to your car and a Fallen Flag in your garden, you're not really supporting "are troops" (yes, I've seen it written that way). It's also been commercialised. Remembrance pizzas in Tesco, anyone? Poppy-branded nail clippers, anyone? Corporate sponsorship of giant lamp-post poppies abound, too. These are real examples, sadly. It's a long way from the discreet and dignified poppies my Nan would sell in her village a few days before Remembrance Sunday. It's becoming a commercial exercise that begins in mid-October. I see fewer street-sellers and perhaps it's because of the commercialisation of it all and the fact that so many products abound on eBay. I think the message has shifted and that's a terrible thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:36 am 
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I agree with you anotherdad. For the first time this year I am not wearing one as I am fed up with seeing how they have been appropriated by unpalatable fringe messages - for example people changing their Facebook profiles to look like they are on a battlefield or by a grave; posting social media images taken from WW2 with new 'relevant; messages; the ridiculously ostentatious enormous poppies attached to people's clothes; hats, T shirts etc. It has cheapened the message and also I think subtly changed it.

I struggle (and I know I am unusual in this) with the application of the word 'hero' to anyone who has died now in unfortunate or tragic circumstances, and the conflation of heroes and poppies is difficult to take for me. There is nothing heroic in my view about being blown up by a grenade or dying in a fire - it is just b loody tragic and horrible and a dreadful and heart wrenching waste of life. I now work on the principle that one does not need to wear a badge to indicate that one has donated money or thoughts to a cause one believes in, but I am sad that this simple symbol of grief for those who died in war seems not to be enough now and we are supposed to parade it in a way which to me has started to feel too much like nationalism.


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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:43 am 
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Exactly. I think the RBL have lost control of it and they will need help to reclaim it for its original purpose. The amount of money that is being made off the back of them is ridiculous. Selling a poppy-print t-shirt where "10% of the profits go to helping our heroes" is a far cry from buying a poppy from an authorised volunteer of the RBL.


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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:05 pm 
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But surely by buying the cheap, simple paper poppy you are showing you are not buying into the commercialism? RBL is getting no donations from me this year as I am wearing last year's poppy due to unavailability.

I guess I am just old fashioned in my views. I must admit RBL is not a charity I actively support but I want to visibly honour my (and other people's) grandparents by displaying my respect for the sacrifices they made; not political, not patriotism and I hate commercialism. I show my respect because I can't begin to imagine how it felt to "have" to go to war. I will continue to show my appreciation with the simple gesture of a red paper poppy (even when pc white poppies are everywhere). My grandads didn't die in the war but they were injured. Neither of them were heroes, they just did what was expected of them at the time... I can't even begin to imagine how it felt as a mother to see a son forced to go to war (though in those days it was more duty than force). I want - need - to publicly honour them. I place a poppy on my Grandad's unmarked grave every year as a mark of respect and as a thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Location: london
Come to London at the weekend, there are poppy sellers at most tube stations. Go and visit the Tower at dusk and they have an incredibly moving light installation (OK lots of candles) as a memorial. It is as moving as the red poppy installation a few years ago IMO.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... e-memorial
ETA the link

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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:15 pm 
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mad? wrote:
Come to London at the weekend, there are poppy sellers at most tube stations. Go and visit the Tower at dusk and they have an incredibly moving light installation (OK lots of candles) as a memorium. It is as moving as the red poppy installation a few years ago IMO.

I wish Wycombe was so proactive :( Having put my only paper poppy on my Grandad's grave I am now down to wearing an old enamel one I bought for my Dad. It just makes me sad tbh. I don't support any of the recent wars through my poppy, I just want to show support for those who fought in wars where they had no choice.... maybe that is where the RBL is going wrong?

Actually, though there are no lights or displays in the villages around here, there are lots of Silent Silhoettes springing up. A dignified reminder of those people that served during the great war. This year isn't about all wars but about the Great War. And I think everyone who fought (whether they died or not) deserves our respect and thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Armistice 1918
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Plenty of poppy sellers here and I will be doing my stint tomorrow - 2 hours on the high street outside the local Waitrose with my tin and tray of poppies ( it's cold and wet usually but they do bring me out several cups of tea ) and it's amazing who you get to talk to.

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