Exclusion
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Appeal Mum
- Posts: 2049
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:29 pm
- Location: Wirral
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Appeal Mum
- Posts: 2049
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:29 pm
- Location: Wirral
Oh dear I just picked those emoticons randomly as I can't even see what those funny little faces are supposed to be.
Who has been harsh, and in what way? We were all just answering the question on the basis of info given so far, and I said in my response that we did not know the full story. But then probably nobody does, including those who were in the fight. Or the teachers who would in an ideal world have seen it coming and stopped it before it started if you see what I mean. Not a very easy thing to do. I am not sure what answer I would give as to what was done to prevent it happening.
Who has been harsh, and in what way? We were all just answering the question on the basis of info given so far, and I said in my response that we did not know the full story. But then probably nobody does, including those who were in the fight. Or the teachers who would in an ideal world have seen it coming and stopped it before it started if you see what I mean. Not a very easy thing to do. I am not sure what answer I would give as to what was done to prevent it happening.
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Appeal Mum
- Posts: 2049
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:29 pm
- Location: Wirral
Ok now you have explained it, no offence taken..perplexed wrote:Oh dear I just picked those emoticons randomly as I can't even see what those funny little faces are supposed to be..
Probably nobody has taken it harshly.. I was just looking at how mum72 would see it being her 1st post and all.perplexed wrote: Who has been harsh, and in what way? We were all just answering the question on the basis of info given so far, and I said in my response that we did not know the full story. But then probably nobody does, including those who were in the fight. Or the teachers who would in an ideal world have seen it coming and stopped it before it started if you see what I mean. Not a very easy thing to do. I am not sure what answer I would give as to what was done to prevent it happening.
AM
PS. to Appeal Mum
Mum72 did say in original post "any thoughts gratefully received". There's not much point in us all writing back saying "that sounds unfair" ----- that would be judgemental and harsh to the school and would not help Mum72 sort her thoughts out before whatever discussion she chooses to have with the school.
The school will presumably say they were right, so what were we supposed to say to Mum72's request for thoughts that she would gratefully receive?
A further thought for Mum72 is why the circumstances made a difference - why is it more excusable to fight on your first trip away from home - than say on your second - or at home? I don't think this argument will go down well with a teacher, headteacher, or governor. And I can see why a school might choose to show zero tolerance on trips by excluding the first time offence when they might choose to give a second chance for the same behaviour on school premises.
Mum72 did say in original post "any thoughts gratefully received". There's not much point in us all writing back saying "that sounds unfair" ----- that would be judgemental and harsh to the school and would not help Mum72 sort her thoughts out before whatever discussion she chooses to have with the school.
The school will presumably say they were right, so what were we supposed to say to Mum72's request for thoughts that she would gratefully receive?
A further thought for Mum72 is why the circumstances made a difference - why is it more excusable to fight on your first trip away from home - than say on your second - or at home? I don't think this argument will go down well with a teacher, headteacher, or governor. And I can see why a school might choose to show zero tolerance on trips by excluding the first time offence when they might choose to give a second chance for the same behaviour on school premises.
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
I certainly don't read Mum72's post as saying that it isn't right or fair that her son should be punished, or being more concerned about the exclusion than the fighting. She makes it quite clear that she believes that such incidents should be punished.
Her question is that the school has imposed a punishment that is apparently not specified as being the first step for this offence in the school's disciplinary code, and whether she should be concerned about that. Secondly she is obviously as concerned as any of us would be about the possible effect on her son's school record of an exclusion.
From previous experience of a school where the disciplinary code was "muddy" at best, I think mum72 is right to question the school's approach.
If the school's code says that the normal punishment for this offence within school would be a warning, then an exclusion for a further offence, then I would expect that same Code to be applied on school trips unless it is specified otherwise.
I think that Guest55 may be on the right track - the teachers were probably not supervising the kids adequately, the situation escalated, and the teachers then waded in with the biggest stick they could find to try to regain control. I see that happen all too often in another context that I work in.
Mum72 - I also agree with Guest55 that a single one day exclusion is not going to be a major blot on your son's record. However, I do suggest that you raise the process with the school. I am almost certain that the exclusion will not be withdrawn, but perhaps you can ensure that the school clarifies the rules for future reference.
Sally-Anne
Her question is that the school has imposed a punishment that is apparently not specified as being the first step for this offence in the school's disciplinary code, and whether she should be concerned about that. Secondly she is obviously as concerned as any of us would be about the possible effect on her son's school record of an exclusion.
From previous experience of a school where the disciplinary code was "muddy" at best, I think mum72 is right to question the school's approach.
If the school's code says that the normal punishment for this offence within school would be a warning, then an exclusion for a further offence, then I would expect that same Code to be applied on school trips unless it is specified otherwise.
I think that Guest55 may be on the right track - the teachers were probably not supervising the kids adequately, the situation escalated, and the teachers then waded in with the biggest stick they could find to try to regain control. I see that happen all too often in another context that I work in.
Mum72 - I also agree with Guest55 that a single one day exclusion is not going to be a major blot on your son's record. However, I do suggest that you raise the process with the school. I am almost certain that the exclusion will not be withdrawn, but perhaps you can ensure that the school clarifies the rules for future reference.
Sally-Anne
I am intrigued by Guest55’s comments about exclusion is always the outcome for fighting… I would expect that to be the case at senior school but do you feel it is always the case at primary school? Mum72 said her son is aged 9 and in Year 5.Guest55 wrote:In my experience a fight always leads to exclusion wherever it happens.
I would question the level of supervision from the school and ask for a full investigation of how this was allowed to happen.
I don’t condone the fighting. But it seems to me to be unusual for a 9 year old to be excluded unless this had been a repeated problem or a very serious first time offence. I'm just posing the question - I'm not a teacher and don't know what the usual sacntions are other than at my own children's school where they use a series of warnings, loss of breaktime, seeing the headmaster etc long before a child would be excluded.
What struck me is that the trip involved both Year 5 and Year 7 pupils – that is quite an age difference so am wondering whether this is a primary school after all …?
Ok I wasn't clear and you have raised lots of interesting points.
Firstly the reason i may have come across as being less bothered about the fighting is that i took it as read that would all assume that that is at the forefront of my mind - sorry. I am worried about my sons apparent lack of control over his temper and have sought advice on several occasions usually to be told that he will grow out of it. He has always has problems making friends and does become anxious when away from me. I raised these concerns before the trip. I have now made contact with the school nurse who may be able to help. He is the youngest of 3 so i have probably been in denial that there is an issue along with the school who because of relentlessly inconsistent teacher issues have never really got to know my child.
You are not being harsh - the reason i put it out there was because i am a to close too the problem and instinctively have leapt to my sons defence although i am well aware he may totally be at fault.
The site he was staying at was with other schools with children from all different age groups.
I imagine that he was a pain in the neck all through the week and that the fight was the last straw. To me this says that he was not happy and needed to come home. Had he been at school that would have happened.
I think i've covered most things but let me know your thoughts.
Firstly the reason i may have come across as being less bothered about the fighting is that i took it as read that would all assume that that is at the forefront of my mind - sorry. I am worried about my sons apparent lack of control over his temper and have sought advice on several occasions usually to be told that he will grow out of it. He has always has problems making friends and does become anxious when away from me. I raised these concerns before the trip. I have now made contact with the school nurse who may be able to help. He is the youngest of 3 so i have probably been in denial that there is an issue along with the school who because of relentlessly inconsistent teacher issues have never really got to know my child.
You are not being harsh - the reason i put it out there was because i am a to close too the problem and instinctively have leapt to my sons defence although i am well aware he may totally be at fault.
The site he was staying at was with other schools with children from all different age groups.
I imagine that he was a pain in the neck all through the week and that the fight was the last straw. To me this says that he was not happy and needed to come home. Had he been at school that would have happened.
I think i've covered most things but let me know your thoughts.