Grammar and Faith school expansion.

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loopylala
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Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by loopylala »

Surferfish wrote:how they are even allowed to operate like this under the law.
That's what I can't get my head around. How can schools refuse to provide educational provision for a child purely on the basis of their parents religious beliefs?
loopylala
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by loopylala »

Guest55 wrote:Most C of E schools do not even have a faith requirement and these schools are often chosen by other faiths because of their ethos. I know that is not the same for Catholic schools but there are fewer of those.
It would be interesting in know what % of faith schools include a faith criteria in their admissions policy.
tiffinboys
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Location: Surrey

Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by tiffinboys »

Guest55 wrote:
tiffinboys wrote:Yes, I see your point G55 and exactly I am aware that that non-selective get more funding because of more PP and SEN children. So SEN would be assisted by more TAs etc.

Do you feel that out of the 75-80% children that go to non-selectives in Bucks, there wont be chidren who can do three sciences or mfl or other subjects offered by grammars? Do all level 4 (that was what required in old terms) go to grammars and none in non-selectives?
I did see data a few year back that about 10% of students in Uppers had 3 level 5s - so that's about 20 or so if they are distributed evenly [which I'd guess they would not be]. That's not enough for a GCSE group even if every one of those wanted to do triple science or an additional MFL. Saying that some Uppers do offer more options but that is not even across the LA and depends on intake.
My observation related to old level 4 children. I feel that many of these children would be in non-selective schools and as such these schools should be able to offer better subject choices than at present.
anotherdad
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Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by anotherdad »

loopylala wrote:That's what I can't get my head around. How can schools refuse to provide educational provision for a child purely on the basis of their parents religious beliefs?
They would perhaps word it differently, saying that rather than refusing a child, they will admit children of any or no faith but in accordance with their "religious ranking" or however one describes it. Take a look at the admissions oversubscription criteria for the new Catholic secondary school in Aylesbury: http://www.stmichaels.bucks.sch.uk/uplo ... y_2018.pdf

So, far from refusing a particular child a place, they will offer a place if there are any left. For those wanting a quick summary without viewing the link, the priority list is:

Children with a SEN statement or EHCP
Looked after Catholic children
Children of really devout Catholic parents
Children of devout Catholic parents
Other looked after children
Children of really devout Christian parents of other denominations
Children of devout Christian parents of other denominations who support a Catholic ethos
Children whose parents support a Catholic ethos
Anyone else.

Now if that's not an inclusive, accepting policy, I don't know what is. It's especially interesting because the school is on the site of the old Quarrendon School, which became Aylesbury Vale Academy and then moved to another site out of town, and is in an area with a sizeable number of families with Asian heritage, many of whom are Muslim. I'm not sure that many places will be available for those families if they were to choose to attend the school. They will instead have to journey past the school to AVA (a CofE school) some distance out of town.
Surferfish
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Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by Surferfish »

loopylala wrote:
Surferfish wrote:how they are even allowed to operate like this under the law.
That's what I can't get my head around. How can schools refuse to provide educational provision for a child purely on the basis of their parents religious beliefs?
I don't think faith schools would be allowed to go so far as blatantly refusing a child based on religious beliefs, but in the case of schools which are popular and oversubscribed I think it is quite common for them to give priority to parents of a particular religion.

For example, I remember back when we were applying for primary schools, there was a popular, well performing C of E school which we considered. They accepted children of any faith or no faith, but if a parent was a regular Christian worshiper and could provide a letter from their vicar to prove it then this gave them priority in the application process ahead of say a non-Christian who may have lived closer to the school.
RedPanda
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Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by RedPanda »

Guest55 wrote:Most C of E schools do not even have a faith requirement and these schools are often chosen by other faiths because of their ethos. I know that is not the same for Catholic schools but there are fewer of those.
There is definitely a move by the Church of England in that direction. They almost certainly have some provision for faith for the schools that have competition for places though. They aren't stupid :)

The other faiths are years (or should that be centuries?) behind in their thinking.

I really do object to my taxes being used in this manner.
Surferfish
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Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by Surferfish »

anotherdad wrote:For those wanting a quick summary without viewing the link, the priority list is:

Children with a SEN statement or EHCP
Looked after Catholic children
Children of really devout Catholic parents
Children of devout Catholic parents
Other looked after children
Children of really devout Christian parents of other denominations
Children of devout Christian parents of other denominations who support a Catholic ethos
Children whose parents support a Catholic ethos
Anyone else.
I'm curious as to how they distinguish between the "really devout" and the plain old "devout"... :? :lol:
anotherdad
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Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by anotherdad »

Surferfish wrote:I'm curious as to how they distinguish between the "really devout" and the plain old "devout"... :? :lol:
In fairness to them, those were my choice of words to paraphrase the following:

Roman Catholic children who have the signed support of a priest and a Baptismal Certificate.
Roman Catholic children who have a Baptismal Certificate.
Surferfish
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Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by Surferfish »

Presumably they also give priority to children whose parents are prepared to tell the occasional white lie.

"Yes headmaster, we are both devout Christians who support a Catholic ethos, particularly since we discovered that your school received an outstanding Ofsted rating!" :wink:
anotherdad
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:33 pm

Re: Grammar and Faith school expansion.

Post by anotherdad »

Surferfish wrote:Presumably they also give priority to children whose parents are prepared to tell the occasional white lie.

"Yes headmaster, we are both devout Christians who support a Catholic ethos, particularly since we discovered that your school received an outstanding Ofsted rating!" :wink:
:) It's the faith school equivalent of the 11+ appellants who claim: "My DC just missed the qualification mark but didn't do any tutoring, honest."
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