Go to navigation
It is currently Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:22 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 446
On recent open days at various local grammar schools, I was surprised to hear that some of them don't set for maths initially. Some set in year 8, one school not until year 9. Given that the ability profile of new intake, could be anywhere in maths from 110 to 140++ , this seemed quite concerning to me. All the independent schools we had visited, had setting from the outset, and certainly seemed to take a more tailored approach. Does anyone know if this would be a problem for the top-end ability mathematicians, in terms of differentiation etc, and is this usual for grammars? Thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:45 pm
Posts: 7394
This is certainly usual in Bucks grammar schools. A high score doesn't necessarily mean they are the best mathematicians. It wouldn't seem fair to set them on entry, it seems much fairer when they have all had the same teaching for a year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 6728
The grammar schools in our area don't set at all in the first few years - there is a small amount of setting in GCSE years where the "top" sets do Add Maths (equivalent to an AS level) on top of the GCSE - the 11+ is such a small snapshot that I wouldn't be too worried about the difference between a top scoring maths 11+ result and a bottom one - too many variables.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
Posts: 9892
My Kids' schools didn't set until year 9 ( I think) really didn't matter, gave people time to sort themselves out and used to the different ways of teaching.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 446
Thanks Scary mum, that really surprises me.
I agree it would be wrong to base this on one score alone, (we have a lot of other data in terms of identifying her ability) but where a child is already working far beyond the national curriculum and is differentiated at her current school as part of their gifted&talented programme, it seems bizarre to think she would have to simply slot in to a one size fits all class approach, simply because it’s a grammar?! Is there any differentiation done at all?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:55 pm
Posts: 725
My one son was set in y8 and my other will be from y9 (Bham/Walsall).

Children can move between sets based on performance in tests and class so there are ample chances to move up or down.

Why are you concerned? A child with a lower score on one given day of an 11 plus test isn't necessarily an accurate indicator of their ability.

They're still very young in y7 too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:51 am
Posts: 9892
You can find that there are children who haven't excelled at primary and improve considerably at GS and others who have appeared to do well at primary but don't keep the same trajectory at GS - they do need time to get used to it all. DS had people taking AS maths in year 7 (arranged by over enthusiastic parents) - didn't help them particularly as they had sort of plateaued and probably weren't really good mathematicians.
Same thing happens with languages, some have done a lot more but it is good to work together


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 6728
To be fair, the gifted and talented programme in primary schools officially ended years ago - most secondary schools are adept at differentiation - the key thing is not to rush up the ladder to the next national curriculum Key stage but to do expansion activities like the UKMT Maths challenge (our GS enters everyone every year for this as they are so confident in the students ability - and moreorless everyone gets at least a Bronze - for example.

The level of work across the board will increase and your daughter will be able to extend her own research etc in these subjects - taking more responsibility for her own learning - don't worry about rushing her to get ahead. And there will be children that are far ahead of her at GS too and she will have to learn how to cope with that.

Crossed with Ricky and HM


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:57 am
Posts: 446
We are not state primary, so gifted programme is school specific. And I’m not concerned based on her 11plus score alone, her ability has been identified as exceptionally high, and has been verified by Ed Psych assessments, they were the ones who initially advised that her current school’s top set were not differentiating enough! At year 4 she was ahead of their year 6 top set cohort, and has been participating in various inter-school maths competitions.
Of course it’s a slight concern going forward. It seems a bit of a homogeneous approach, and more about getting everyone up to a base level, rather than looking at individual enrichment. Her cousin was also gifted at maths, and he attended a comprehensive school in a non grammar county. He was set from year 7, and had an amazing extension programme provided through the school, which eventually saw him through to starting Cambridge this year.
Perhaps it won’t be a problem, but it does concern me a little!

Thanks Kenyan cowgirl, just read your comment after I posted. That does make sense.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 3030
In real terms the ability range within GS is much less than in non selective schools ( or those whose selection process is designed to just pinpoint any children for who the school is unsuitable).

(At the risk of getting told off for boasting!) one of my DCs only just made the cut for a super-selective GS but it quickly became clear that he was very close to the top in maths, across the whole year group.

There's no reason to think that he is an unusual case. If they set from the start of year 7 there could be a large number being moved down as well as up as ability became clearer and that wouldn't go down well with parents or be helpful for pupils.

I also agree about not rushing even very able children through the curriculum. Encouraging thinking and exploring will give them a much sounder base for future study. This is the case with pretty much all subjects.

The focus on targets and levels and grades doesn't encourage teaching our children 'how to learn' but having had several DCs through the education system and out the very far end ( with varying levels of 'success') I am strongly of the opinion that its the most important skill they can be taught.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Privacy Policy | Refund Policy | Disclaimer | Copyright © 2004 – 2020