Setting in Grammar schools
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Re: Setting in Grammar schools
Have you read The Elephant in the Classroom by Jo Boaler?
Gives lots of evidence about why setting in maths is not necessarily a good thing.
All schools should be able to challenge able mathematicians.
Gives lots of evidence about why setting in maths is not necessarily a good thing.
All schools should be able to challenge able mathematicians.
Re: Setting in Grammar schools
Thanks MoonUnit, I haven't read it, but will certainly look it up.
A lot of people seemed to think I was basing my question and perception of maths ability, on the basis of the 11plus score, and I just wanted to reiterate that I completely agree you cannot differentiate children on entry into year 7, on the basis of these scores. For starters, the maths content is easy for anyone who has a good grasp of maths, factor in the tuition and timed practice that most children have these days for the test, and I'd imagine there are hundreds of equally high scores! The standard of maths for an entrance assessment like St. Pauls for example, is in a different league where tests are concerned, so I agree the 11plus test serves little purpose beyond what it does. There may well be many children that have undiscovered exceptional ability, that one day gets unleashed wherever they are, for some that talent is already quite obvious or has been professionally assessed and identified. If professionals who have worked with thousands of children over careers spanning decades, feel that a child's ability is exceptional, then of course I take their advice, as do the school.
I also appreciate that GS will generally have a higher ability cohort than that of my nephew's comprehensive, but being a comprehensive in a non GS affluent area, the top sets are surely comparable to our GS intake, and in his school, the top math sets were identified in year 7, his school was aware of his talent from primary handover, and he was provided extra support beyond the classroom - from year 7 onward. That's why I was surprised to hear that some Bucks GS did not set until year 9.
Of course I am no doubt overthinking it all, and it seems that differentiation does happen through good teaching and class management, so that's reassuring. Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated.
A lot of people seemed to think I was basing my question and perception of maths ability, on the basis of the 11plus score, and I just wanted to reiterate that I completely agree you cannot differentiate children on entry into year 7, on the basis of these scores. For starters, the maths content is easy for anyone who has a good grasp of maths, factor in the tuition and timed practice that most children have these days for the test, and I'd imagine there are hundreds of equally high scores! The standard of maths for an entrance assessment like St. Pauls for example, is in a different league where tests are concerned, so I agree the 11plus test serves little purpose beyond what it does. There may well be many children that have undiscovered exceptional ability, that one day gets unleashed wherever they are, for some that talent is already quite obvious or has been professionally assessed and identified. If professionals who have worked with thousands of children over careers spanning decades, feel that a child's ability is exceptional, then of course I take their advice, as do the school.
I also appreciate that GS will generally have a higher ability cohort than that of my nephew's comprehensive, but being a comprehensive in a non GS affluent area, the top sets are surely comparable to our GS intake, and in his school, the top math sets were identified in year 7, his school was aware of his talent from primary handover, and he was provided extra support beyond the classroom - from year 7 onward. That's why I was surprised to hear that some Bucks GS did not set until year 9.
Of course I am no doubt overthinking it all, and it seems that differentiation does happen through good teaching and class management, so that's reassuring. Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated.
Re: Setting in Grammar schools
I think it can be concluded that as no Grammar schools are reported to set in year 7 at least the maths departments are confident they can teach the spread of abilities without setting.
They will have had lots of experience teaching able children.
No doubt your primary will flag your daughters ability to your next school.
I’d leave it to the teachers to make their assessment of her ability and go with the flow at least to start with.
There will be maths clubs, chess, UKMTs and other things to keep her busy.
More importantly is to manage the huge change from primary to secondary and all that goes with that.
That takes some time to get used to for even the brightest of children.
If she finds classroom maths easy for a while that will be no bad thing.
They will have had lots of experience teaching able children.
No doubt your primary will flag your daughters ability to your next school.
I’d leave it to the teachers to make their assessment of her ability and go with the flow at least to start with.
There will be maths clubs, chess, UKMTs and other things to keep her busy.
More importantly is to manage the huge change from primary to secondary and all that goes with that.
That takes some time to get used to for even the brightest of children.
If she finds classroom maths easy for a while that will be no bad thing.
Re: Setting in Grammar schools
Its a difficult balance for the school as well as parents in dealing with particular talents without making the child 'different' in a way that negatively impacts how they fit in with their peers.
A good school will encourage a range of talents whether academic, sporting, musical, social etc, etc and encourage each pupil to contribute to the school as well as strive for individual achievements.
Thus each pupil feels valued and accepts others who have ability in different areas.
The school might consider that immediate differentiation is unhelpful in encouraging the new Year 7s to gel and settle so I would wait a little before deciding if your DD's needs are being met.
As moon unit says, hopefully there will be all sorts of new opportunities for your DD to develop her mathematical ability in the meantime.
In the medium term all children do better if they are happy and confident in the school environment so a bit of 'bedding in' can lay strong foundations for future achievement.
A good school will encourage a range of talents whether academic, sporting, musical, social etc, etc and encourage each pupil to contribute to the school as well as strive for individual achievements.
Thus each pupil feels valued and accepts others who have ability in different areas.
The school might consider that immediate differentiation is unhelpful in encouraging the new Year 7s to gel and settle so I would wait a little before deciding if your DD's needs are being met.
As moon unit says, hopefully there will be all sorts of new opportunities for your DD to develop her mathematical ability in the meantime.
In the medium term all children do better if they are happy and confident in the school environment so a bit of 'bedding in' can lay strong foundations for future achievement.
Re: Setting in Grammar schools
Thank you Moon-unit & KB. I agree the settling in phase is hugely important, whatever school they go to. Think I’m happy to chill on this one, thanks for putting it in better perspective!
