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Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
...as indeed can playing a new musical instrument, learning some astronomy, another language, a martial art, growing your own vegetables, a bit of woodwork...capers123 wrote: Definitely needs stretching. It could even be that he'd find any 11+ practice tests, etc, an amusing past-time. I know that some parents place a lot on pushing their children as far as they can, so 11+ tutoring becomes a major unpleasantness, but for a bright yet bored child it can be quite a nice, fun, mind-expanding thing.
More than one way to stave off boredom and expand minds, especially very young ones.
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
[edit] Providing you can get them to do those things. Good luck with that if he's anything like ours.
Our son is definitely in that category too; his school work made a major (if temporary!) leap in quality while being tutored, he's now at an incredibly selective GS and loving it. (Still doing the bare minimum, mind! But the bare minimum is now quite a lot...)
Mike
Our son is definitely in that category too; his school work made a major (if temporary!) leap in quality while being tutored, he's now at an incredibly selective GS and loving it. (Still doing the bare minimum, mind! But the bare minimum is now quite a lot...)
Mike
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
I agree, sometimes the work that has to be done to prepare for the test can do that bit of pushing or brain stimulation. This can have a knock on effect on school work - better focus, concentration span etc
Amber, yes I agree with you too. It could be a good idea to try an outside of school interest esp if he has been doing a hobby for a while and is a bit jaded. Year 5 is sometimes ripe for a change - they have grown up and changed a bit and interests might have too. It is a good time for a review of routines.
Be sure if your DS is interested in art and design that your GS will give him the best opportunity. Some comprehensives are better equipped and have more specialist staff for creative work. Might be worth looking around at schools with this in mind. As has been said before on this forum different schools suit different DCs. Mine attend different schools for this reason.
Believe me, I am not knocking the GSs - my DDs both attend and DD1 is very arty and wants a career in that area. Your DS may favour an art foundation instead of A level but there will be only a small group who take art to A level at GS. We looked around 2 boys GSs for my DS in Y5 and one I thought was not brilliant for art. My DS likes art but I don't think it will be his "thing" so it didn't bother me too much but had it been really important I might have needed a bit more reassurance.
DD1 (very arty) gets extra opps through the G&T route so that also might be true for the boys grammars and may benefit your DS (& comps will do this of course)
If I were you I would do the prep for the test - you might as well if he is bright and you will be cross with yourself if you don't and then decide to go for it!! Plus enjoy the "lazy" times with him. There is enough pressure later when homework and tests kick in. Many creative DCs are dreamers and need time to doodle and think - it is part of their intelligence so they don't always appear to be fully focussed esp if the task in hand is dull.
It is easy to compare our Dcs but they are so different you sometimes have to go at things in a different way.
Look round again in Y6 (see if you can see the GCSE A level art work) and make your final decision then.
Amber, yes I agree with you too. It could be a good idea to try an outside of school interest esp if he has been doing a hobby for a while and is a bit jaded. Year 5 is sometimes ripe for a change - they have grown up and changed a bit and interests might have too. It is a good time for a review of routines.
Be sure if your DS is interested in art and design that your GS will give him the best opportunity. Some comprehensives are better equipped and have more specialist staff for creative work. Might be worth looking around at schools with this in mind. As has been said before on this forum different schools suit different DCs. Mine attend different schools for this reason.
Believe me, I am not knocking the GSs - my DDs both attend and DD1 is very arty and wants a career in that area. Your DS may favour an art foundation instead of A level but there will be only a small group who take art to A level at GS. We looked around 2 boys GSs for my DS in Y5 and one I thought was not brilliant for art. My DS likes art but I don't think it will be his "thing" so it didn't bother me too much but had it been really important I might have needed a bit more reassurance.
DD1 (very arty) gets extra opps through the G&T route so that also might be true for the boys grammars and may benefit your DS (& comps will do this of course)
If I were you I would do the prep for the test - you might as well if he is bright and you will be cross with yourself if you don't and then decide to go for it!! Plus enjoy the "lazy" times with him. There is enough pressure later when homework and tests kick in. Many creative DCs are dreamers and need time to doodle and think - it is part of their intelligence so they don't always appear to be fully focussed esp if the task in hand is dull.
It is easy to compare our Dcs but they are so different you sometimes have to go at things in a different way.
Look round again in Y6 (see if you can see the GCSE A level art work) and make your final decision then.
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
I have twin nieces - one hard-working and now working on a PhD at Bristol, the other only does what she has to and having achieved a standard chemistry degree did an art foundation course and is working for a cosmetic company in a job she could have filled without any university training.
Their mother wasn't sure about the 2nd daughter applying to St. Michael's Grammar in N. London as she wasn't sure is she would pass the test selection, but entered her anyway. She came 2nd in VR and 3rd in NVR, beating her sister and almost every other applicant that year as she 'didn't want to go to a different school'.
At grammar she did very well in her exams to the point that they suggested she apply to Cambridge, but in the end chose Durham, and left to her own devices did as little as she could again, but the grammar gave her confidence and social skills which have turned her into a lovely young woman, and I doubt she would have done so well with her 'A' levels at a different school. She now has a perfect boyfriend (tall, dark, handsome and kind, a friend of her sister's and also working on a PhD at Bristol) who comes from a traditional Indian family. Her natural intelligence, lovely nature and good education combined with the fact that although she would like an interesting and challenging job isn't putting a career first make them a perfect couple.
My point in this is that your son might surprise you, gain a place and thrive there. How he does later on is mostly his choice, but IMO the grammar is more likely to help him achieve his best in the years that he is with you. Of course, if unlike us you also have very good state schools and are in catchment for them them he'll probably do well there to, but I suspect he might feel 2nd best if you don't try for the grammar as he is so set on it. If you start working at home on practice tests that might feedback into his schoolwork and make him more motivated.....
Their mother wasn't sure about the 2nd daughter applying to St. Michael's Grammar in N. London as she wasn't sure is she would pass the test selection, but entered her anyway. She came 2nd in VR and 3rd in NVR, beating her sister and almost every other applicant that year as she 'didn't want to go to a different school'.
At grammar she did very well in her exams to the point that they suggested she apply to Cambridge, but in the end chose Durham, and left to her own devices did as little as she could again, but the grammar gave her confidence and social skills which have turned her into a lovely young woman, and I doubt she would have done so well with her 'A' levels at a different school. She now has a perfect boyfriend (tall, dark, handsome and kind, a friend of her sister's and also working on a PhD at Bristol) who comes from a traditional Indian family. Her natural intelligence, lovely nature and good education combined with the fact that although she would like an interesting and challenging job isn't putting a career first make them a perfect couple.
My point in this is that your son might surprise you, gain a place and thrive there. How he does later on is mostly his choice, but IMO the grammar is more likely to help him achieve his best in the years that he is with you. Of course, if unlike us you also have very good state schools and are in catchment for them them he'll probably do well there to, but I suspect he might feel 2nd best if you don't try for the grammar as he is so set on it. If you start working at home on practice tests that might feedback into his schoolwork and make him more motivated.....
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
The state primary curriculum is so dire that I am not at all surprised children get bored whatever their ability. I would certainly enter any child for the 11+ if they had any chance of passing but I suspect most need some help from parents or a tutor.
I would not, however, get your hopes up much about secondary school! It is still subject to the dead hand of the national curriculum; key stage 3 is a complete waste of everyone's time and GCSEs are rote learning whatever anyone says to the contrary. A levels are little better and most degree courses are useless and expensive. Depressing isn't it!?
I think one's only hope is to find something interesting to do at weekends and in the evenings.
Both my DDs stick to their theory that any child who says they enjoy school after about mid-year 8 is a liar or their parents are living in a fool's paradise!
I would not, however, get your hopes up much about secondary school! It is still subject to the dead hand of the national curriculum; key stage 3 is a complete waste of everyone's time and GCSEs are rote learning whatever anyone says to the contrary. A levels are little better and most degree courses are useless and expensive. Depressing isn't it!?
I think one's only hope is to find something interesting to do at weekends and in the evenings.
Both my DDs stick to their theory that any child who says they enjoy school after about mid-year 8 is a liar or their parents are living in a fool's paradise!
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
Whatever you think of magwich's view of the National Curriculum, what I think parents sometimes seem to forget, or not to be aware of, is that it is exactly the same in grammar schools as comprehensives. There isn't a different version for grammar schools - your only hope of escaping it is in the private sector, and even there they usually pretty much stick to it, just losing some of the over-prescriptive assessment tools, as a rule.
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
This is what we were told by DS1's primary school teacher. He is now in Y8 at grammar where "good enough" won't do. The competition between boys means his standards have gone up immeasurably. Go for it!Waiting_For_Godot wrote:If he is bored and therefore not achieving as he should then he most definitely needs to be in GS.
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
A bright well motivated child should do well in any school.
But a poorly motivated child needs to be in a school that will not allow him to rest on his laurels. You need to decide which local school can best inspire him.
But a poorly motivated child needs to be in a school that will not allow him to rest on his laurels. You need to decide which local school can best inspire him.
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
I so agree with everything Amber has written here.
Even before DD didn’t get through her 11+ I had no truck with the sentiment that ‘if my DC doesn’t get into the GS her life will be over’ or not even bothering to look round the local upper schools because ‘she’s going to go there over my dead body’.
DD’s school has had setting from day one of Y7 in the core subjects, with movement between sets at the start of Y8. She’s doing all the same subjects (ie triple science, 2 languages) as DS is at his high-performing GS, gets extension work in maths and humanities – in class as well as for homework – and is studying exactly the same topics as her brother did at GS two years previously. In all honesty, there really isn’t much opportunity for coasting.
And lest anyone say she’s just lucky to be at a good upper school, this is a school which was in special measures 6-7 years ago, but a brilliant head coupled with a cohort of parents who were committed to doing so have turned the school around.
Even before DD didn’t get through her 11+ I had no truck with the sentiment that ‘if my DC doesn’t get into the GS her life will be over’ or not even bothering to look round the local upper schools because ‘she’s going to go there over my dead body’.
DD’s school has had setting from day one of Y7 in the core subjects, with movement between sets at the start of Y8. She’s doing all the same subjects (ie triple science, 2 languages) as DS is at his high-performing GS, gets extension work in maths and humanities – in class as well as for homework – and is studying exactly the same topics as her brother did at GS two years previously. In all honesty, there really isn’t much opportunity for coasting.
And lest anyone say she’s just lucky to be at a good upper school, this is a school which was in special measures 6-7 years ago, but a brilliant head coupled with a cohort of parents who were committed to doing so have turned the school around.
Re: To - or not to - enter my bright but..lazy son!
And are there police on duty on the gate in the morning?