Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
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Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
Yes - a good example of one of the many reasons why she may not have as much benefit from what was going on around her in her younger days as her peers, and why someone trying to do some vague measure of her "ability" in the classroom could easily have got it wrong.
I'm not saying the phrase "late developer" is a complete nonsense, but more that it is just one of those very glib phrases thrown around to explain why a child did "better than expected" later on without having to think too hard about the multiple reasons they may not have followed the same trajectory earlier. There are so many reasons it can be very difficult to work out cause and effect but it could be so many reasons including:
- deficits in auditory function and processing
- deficits in visual function and processing
- difficulty concentrating in the teaching situations in which they are placed (for many, many different reasons)
- deprived of lots of talk and social engagement at home
- teaching that is not appropriate for that child (for lots of different reasons)
- being slower learning to read than peers (for lots of different reasons)
- being slower learning to write than peers (for lots of different reaons)
etc etc
I'm not saying the phrase "late developer" is a complete nonsense, but more that it is just one of those very glib phrases thrown around to explain why a child did "better than expected" later on without having to think too hard about the multiple reasons they may not have followed the same trajectory earlier. There are so many reasons it can be very difficult to work out cause and effect but it could be so many reasons including:
- deficits in auditory function and processing
- deficits in visual function and processing
- difficulty concentrating in the teaching situations in which they are placed (for many, many different reasons)
- deprived of lots of talk and social engagement at home
- teaching that is not appropriate for that child (for lots of different reasons)
- being slower learning to read than peers (for lots of different reasons)
- being slower learning to write than peers (for lots of different reaons)
etc etc
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
Could I add to that very comprehensive list something which I am sure would have applied to all of mine; 'not especially interested in school or what it had to offer at the age of 7'? Major amounts of talk and social engagement at home, none of the deficits or delays you speak of, but lots of other fish to fry and a feeling that school, while being mildly entertaining, was an interruption in an otherwise rather fun life.
Totally agree with that. Children surprise us all the time, and I think one of the greatest qualities in a teacher is not to label any child either way. The whizz kids of the class can still spectacularly fail to understand a simple concept (and should not be met with astonishment when they do), and the 'slow' ones can still have flashes of brilliance and get the hang of things fast (and ditto). And of course everyone has strengths and weaknesses - we do just as much disservice by expecting excellence all the time from those we believe capable of it (many supposedly 'gifted' children will not take risks because they are so afraid of failure) as by not expecting enough from those we have decided are less able.The best thing is surely not to have any view about how bright / not bright a child is and just always make sure that you are in the "zone of proximal development".
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
Yes I meant to kind of cover that in "teaching which is not appropriate for that child" .... there's no magical reason why a child of 5 or 6 would be more interested in whatever the teacher had prepared than carefully studying her outfit that day and how the door hinges work. And there's nothing to say that they child who studies the door hinges and the teacher's clothes might not be brighter than the child who chooses to co-operate with and learn whatever the teacher has so carefully planned for that day.
But someone has to find a way in for both types and maybe over time the second type has to learn that they need to go with the sheep more often.
Even my own children are so different and hard to predict and interpret, even to me --- 7 year old has been nagging me to watch this rather dreadful DVD about the human body. I sat and watched it with her and the 9 year old - the 9 year old behaved as though she was in great pain throughout the whole thing, the 7 year old loved it and wanted to do the tests at the end. They are both interested in the human body, but the older one is just not your "conventional" learner but no less "bright" - if she chooses to she'll learn how to recognise 100 dog breeds in 24 hours but if she isn't interested in something and it "has" to be done, it's a battle. How either of them will ultimately turn out I haven't a clue. They're both a bit odd.
I wouldn't have the temerity to judge them on their current "performances".
But someone has to find a way in for both types and maybe over time the second type has to learn that they need to go with the sheep more often.
Even my own children are so different and hard to predict and interpret, even to me --- 7 year old has been nagging me to watch this rather dreadful DVD about the human body. I sat and watched it with her and the 9 year old - the 9 year old behaved as though she was in great pain throughout the whole thing, the 7 year old loved it and wanted to do the tests at the end. They are both interested in the human body, but the older one is just not your "conventional" learner but no less "bright" - if she chooses to she'll learn how to recognise 100 dog breeds in 24 hours but if she isn't interested in something and it "has" to be done, it's a battle. How either of them will ultimately turn out I haven't a clue. They're both a bit odd.
I wouldn't have the temerity to judge them on their current "performances".
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
Article in the Times today that touches on this. Many key educational bodies believe that your child sits on the bell curve in a certain place and you need to accept that. You can't enhance intellect or academic performance too much if at all and to try is cruel and means children end up in the wrong school. (I'd have been on the scrap heap then).
Friends of mine think not all children are born equal in terms of their intellectual capacity, but the brain is highly neuroplastic in the early years. From birth, synaptic connections are made between brain cells and these are constantly pruned as the brain matures. The more stimulation a child gets, the more connections are formed, so there's really no limit as to how much more one can achieve when given the right environment and stimulation. Language learning good to do young etc. So your place on the bell curve could be quite different given early input (so some believe).
I like the idea of lively debate, a truly stimulating school environment, outstanding teaching and being educationally ambitious whatever a child's starting point. My fear is accepting where you are on the bell curve means dumbing down and giving up for many. So many increasingly think tutoring masks a child's true abilities which can't be improved very much at all.
Anyway to turn to the Times. Not article in full:
The headmaster of a leading prep school has described private tutoring as a hideous concept that can undermine education.
Ben Thomas, Headmaster of Thomass, Battersea, said that there was far too much tutoring in London. Ive got a real anxiety about tutoring, he added. Its unregulated and unproven. It devours childrens time when they should be having a childhood.
The topic was raised recently by the Girls Schools Association. Research conducted by the organisation indicated that head teachers of senior schools are also increasingly irritated by the practice of children being tutored for school admission. Heads of senior schools and prep schools discourage this practice, as it masks the childs innate abilities and is of no help to the child if they are tutored into a school for which they are not, in the long run, suitable, said the study.
The issue is causing Mr Thomas so much concern that he plans to host a debate for parents and teachers on the topic. The motion will be: This house believes that tutoring undermines education a title which Mr Thomas admitted was deliberately provocative.
The bottom line is, I despair.It is driven by a fear of missing out. What it leads to is this rise and rise and rise of tutoring. On the surface of it, it would seem to be a no-brainer that one-to-one tutoring is going to help a child. But there are lots of subtle reasons why that is wrong.
Firstly, its childrens time. We set an enormous amount of homework, and childrens days are incredibly busy. There shouldnt be time in the week for them to be having two hours of tuition. Their childhood is being swallowed up.
More subtly, it can undermine a childs learning in the classroom because they tend to think, I dont need to listen to my teacher, Ill ask the tutor when I get home .
Id like to bring all this out into the open, because the problem is it all goes on slightly behind the scenes. Parents get their children tutored but they dont tell the school. They have this sense that the school doesnt really approve and theyd rather keep it quiet, but of course the children all come and tell us theyre being tutored.
Clarissa Farr, High Mistress at St Pauls Girls School, said: We are seeing an increase in tutoring and therefore we now ask parents when they apply to declare what tutoring they have provided for their children.
Gwen Byrom, Headmistress of Loughborough High School, said: I do have many prospective parents who assume tutoring is a necessary part of the admissions process, despite our best efforts to persuade them otherwise.
Mr Thomas said that selective schools had added to the problem. The thought that weve created a system where weve got three-year-olds being coached to get through an entrance test is fundamentally wrong..
Friends of mine think not all children are born equal in terms of their intellectual capacity, but the brain is highly neuroplastic in the early years. From birth, synaptic connections are made between brain cells and these are constantly pruned as the brain matures. The more stimulation a child gets, the more connections are formed, so there's really no limit as to how much more one can achieve when given the right environment and stimulation. Language learning good to do young etc. So your place on the bell curve could be quite different given early input (so some believe).
I like the idea of lively debate, a truly stimulating school environment, outstanding teaching and being educationally ambitious whatever a child's starting point. My fear is accepting where you are on the bell curve means dumbing down and giving up for many. So many increasingly think tutoring masks a child's true abilities which can't be improved very much at all.
Anyway to turn to the Times. Not article in full:
The headmaster of a leading prep school has described private tutoring as a hideous concept that can undermine education.
Ben Thomas, Headmaster of Thomass, Battersea, said that there was far too much tutoring in London. Ive got a real anxiety about tutoring, he added. Its unregulated and unproven. It devours childrens time when they should be having a childhood.
The topic was raised recently by the Girls Schools Association. Research conducted by the organisation indicated that head teachers of senior schools are also increasingly irritated by the practice of children being tutored for school admission. Heads of senior schools and prep schools discourage this practice, as it masks the childs innate abilities and is of no help to the child if they are tutored into a school for which they are not, in the long run, suitable, said the study.
The issue is causing Mr Thomas so much concern that he plans to host a debate for parents and teachers on the topic. The motion will be: This house believes that tutoring undermines education a title which Mr Thomas admitted was deliberately provocative.
The bottom line is, I despair.It is driven by a fear of missing out. What it leads to is this rise and rise and rise of tutoring. On the surface of it, it would seem to be a no-brainer that one-to-one tutoring is going to help a child. But there are lots of subtle reasons why that is wrong.
Firstly, its childrens time. We set an enormous amount of homework, and childrens days are incredibly busy. There shouldnt be time in the week for them to be having two hours of tuition. Their childhood is being swallowed up.
More subtly, it can undermine a childs learning in the classroom because they tend to think, I dont need to listen to my teacher, Ill ask the tutor when I get home .
Id like to bring all this out into the open, because the problem is it all goes on slightly behind the scenes. Parents get their children tutored but they dont tell the school. They have this sense that the school doesnt really approve and theyd rather keep it quiet, but of course the children all come and tell us theyre being tutored.
Clarissa Farr, High Mistress at St Pauls Girls School, said: We are seeing an increase in tutoring and therefore we now ask parents when they apply to declare what tutoring they have provided for their children.
Gwen Byrom, Headmistress of Loughborough High School, said: I do have many prospective parents who assume tutoring is a necessary part of the admissions process, despite our best efforts to persuade them otherwise.
Mr Thomas said that selective schools had added to the problem. The thought that weve created a system where weve got three-year-olds being coached to get through an entrance test is fundamentally wrong..
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
Doesn't exactly help a 'Growth Mindset' does it, thinking of your DAOgroupie and others in particular...
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
With respect, do you think many people are very worried about this? I mean, do you go round wondering where various friends and acquaintances of yours happen to fit on this bell curve? Do you know where you are on it? Is there any evidence of large numbers of discontented individuals looking back and wondering if actually they might have become theoretical physicists rather than bank clerks if only they had challenged their place on the bell curve? Knowing my own IQ, as I do because I had to undergo a psychometric test which included it, has not enhanced my life, nor caused me to either look with pity or admiration on others whom I suspect may be further to the left or the right of me on it. I suggest that actually it generally does not matter one jot and once your children are out in the big wide world no one cares. I have yet to meet anyone who has 'given up' on either themselves or their offspring on account of a sad realisation of their intellectual limitations. I think the far bigger issue for society is the dreadful inequality in outcomes depending on social background; and England does very very badly in this respect. Instead of worrying that some children are being deprived of their rightful place in selective schools, or conversely being pushed so hard that they are getting into schools they have no right to enter, we ought to be shouting long and hard about the inequality of opportunity which is dependent upon, among other things, what kind of family you are born into and what your ethnic origins are.My fear is accepting where you are on the bell curve means dumbing down and giving up for many.
Well Mr Thomas got that one right at least.Mr Thomas said that selective schools had added to the problem. The thought that weve created a system where weve got three-year-olds being coached to get through an entrance test is fundamentally wrong..
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
You're right Amber. A personal bugbear of mine is the underestimation of children & artificial ceilings being put on how far they can go. Also I think things are changing - probably largely for the better as per entry tests.
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
You hide it well though, CranleighCranleigh wrote:A personal bugbear of mine is the underestimation of children & artificial ceilings being put on how far they can go.
I get more annoyed that our education and parenting culture leaves many children and teenagers unable to speak in a civil and appropriate manner to people older than themselves; they often show little knowledge of and respect for the natural world, or indeed the world in general; and can't do basic things like cook, get themselves about and manage money. And I especially get annoyed that many of them are encouraged, by parents and indeed the education system, to think they are the epicentre of the universe, their needs matter more than anyone else's, and they have no responsibility for anyone else in society, especially the old, the vulnerable and the disabled. I'd sacrifice a bit of intellectual stretching for a curriculum which encourages them to be decent and caring human beings, personally.
Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
Indeed 
All you mention sounds good & hopefully happens at home in the first instance.
All you mention sounds good & hopefully happens at home in the first instance.Re: Growing movement for tests which judge innate intellect
I think you have misunderstood Cranleigh, Amber. Her posts are always about her concern that certain schools (both state and private) decide how "able" a child is early on, and then teach them accordingly.
