How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
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leanmeamum
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Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
Travel times were our top priority when we were looking at schools - reduced journey times could be used productively to overcome any shortcomings.
Maybe schools could start charging registration fees for exams - when parents have to pay to sit the exam they would choose them more carefully.
Maybe schools could start charging registration fees for exams - when parents have to pay to sit the exam they would choose them more carefully.
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
Let's look at some facts and figures again. The new kent test is costing £350,000 for one year based on 13, 500 entrants. It is still g l assessment providing it. The per annum cost has gone down slightly. Now that g l has a strong rival in c e m the competition should theoretically drive prices down. The kent final tender document shows the evaluation method and it did take cost into account. It is possible that g l came in cheaper than c e m.
How much difference is few children from a long way away going to make to the costs of this multichoice tests? No difference to what is paid to gl assessment, some extra admin costs but very little really.
People who live a long way away are going to move nearer unless they were just doing it as a mock. Can't imagine there are many doing this as the timing would be so difficult.
The things that will bring the cost down significantly are : better procurement practice from all the public bodies purchasing these tests from the two main bidders c e m and g l assessment. I.e. procurement clearly based on cost and quality rather than political whim and spin.
What did your tests cost? It is all public info.
It was tongue in cheek when I suggested no selective entrance tests. However, when a local authority continues to maintain a grammar system the public are agreeing to the additional costs of this when they vote that administration back in.
If a selective academy in a non 11 plus county chooses to buy in an entrance test then presumably the costs come out if what could have been spent on teaching etc.
Schools grouping together to buy tests is a possible answer but g l and c e m will always have to price in a way which means it is worth keeping this strand of their businesses up and running so it might not result in the savings one might imagine, particularly if people are getting fussier about having a unique test year on year.
Parents put children in for several tests as an insurance policy. If several areas deliver the same test marked the same way then this might mean more parents try tests further afield if their careers permit.
How much difference is few children from a long way away going to make to the costs of this multichoice tests? No difference to what is paid to gl assessment, some extra admin costs but very little really.
People who live a long way away are going to move nearer unless they were just doing it as a mock. Can't imagine there are many doing this as the timing would be so difficult.
The things that will bring the cost down significantly are : better procurement practice from all the public bodies purchasing these tests from the two main bidders c e m and g l assessment. I.e. procurement clearly based on cost and quality rather than political whim and spin.
What did your tests cost? It is all public info.
It was tongue in cheek when I suggested no selective entrance tests. However, when a local authority continues to maintain a grammar system the public are agreeing to the additional costs of this when they vote that administration back in.
If a selective academy in a non 11 plus county chooses to buy in an entrance test then presumably the costs come out if what could have been spent on teaching etc.
Schools grouping together to buy tests is a possible answer but g l and c e m will always have to price in a way which means it is worth keeping this strand of their businesses up and running so it might not result in the savings one might imagine, particularly if people are getting fussier about having a unique test year on year.
Parents put children in for several tests as an insurance policy. If several areas deliver the same test marked the same way then this might mean more parents try tests further afield if their careers permit.
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
what about living in a borough that has no grammar school for instance Greenwich and wishing your child to go to a good school other than a voluntary aided school ?
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southbucks3
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Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
No one would ever question the or expect any kind of justification for entering your child into gs exams where you have actually researched the schools, the travel distances etc.
The financial justification I was querying related to the huge amount of tests being sat by children who's parents clearly just tick every box 4 counties wide and only ponder the logistics after the results, by which time the state schools have paid for excessive amount of tests to be sat, printed, marked and recorded. Although the price per test child may seem relatively low, when you consider those same state schools have active charitable status, looking for every opportunity to find extra pounds, the process seems flawed.
However, Greenwich has many academies and comprehensives where academically bright children attend alongside a mixed cohort and also thrive. One school even sub streams within it's seperate buildings, with children of differing ability working together, although this is obviously contentious. Parents are not limited to voluntary aided schools, although they seem to have a popular presence too.
The financial justification I was querying related to the huge amount of tests being sat by children who's parents clearly just tick every box 4 counties wide and only ponder the logistics after the results, by which time the state schools have paid for excessive amount of tests to be sat, printed, marked and recorded. Although the price per test child may seem relatively low, when you consider those same state schools have active charitable status, looking for every opportunity to find extra pounds, the process seems flawed.
However, Greenwich has many academies and comprehensives where academically bright children attend alongside a mixed cohort and also thrive. One school even sub streams within it's seperate buildings, with children of differing ability working together, although this is obviously contentious. Parents are not limited to voluntary aided schools, although they seem to have a popular presence too.
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
I don't know Greenwich at all so didn't understand the significance of the Greenwich comment.
The kent test contract with g l assessment is a lump sum. It does not vary according to the numbers sitting the test.
Is it different in bucks? Surely the numbers who sit these tests who have zero likelihood of ever attending the school are slim? If we were worrying about the cost to the education purse of state school entrance exams there are much more material sums to question than this little bit at the margins aren't there. Such as:
Why have selective entrance
Why let children sit who are not going to gain admission
Why hunt for the impossible tutor proof test
Why pay commercial organisations big sums to develop the test
Etc etc
Not my personal questions necessarily, but food for thought.
The kent test contract with g l assessment is a lump sum. It does not vary according to the numbers sitting the test.
Is it different in bucks? Surely the numbers who sit these tests who have zero likelihood of ever attending the school are slim? If we were worrying about the cost to the education purse of state school entrance exams there are much more material sums to question than this little bit at the margins aren't there. Such as:
Why have selective entrance
Why let children sit who are not going to gain admission
Why hunt for the impossible tutor proof test
Why pay commercial organisations big sums to develop the test
Etc etc
Not my personal questions necessarily, but food for thought.
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southbucks3
- Posts: 3579
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 am
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
Hmmmm, food or thought in deed. We have literally thousands of kids sitting the bucks exams who's parents would never consider putting most of our schools as number 1. Perhaps entrance should be limited to three per child or something.
I suspect they have completely ruled out teacher recommendations and continual assessment as a means of selection for financial reasons, as well as the potential impartiality of any such selection process.
Your new Kent test looks interesting though, expensive, but I have to say I like the idea of a bit of writing. The cost of marking will deffo go through the roof now though, so it must have been a very driven decision to add the creative.
I suspect they have completely ruled out teacher recommendations and continual assessment as a means of selection for financial reasons, as well as the potential impartiality of any such selection process.
Your new Kent test looks interesting though, expensive, but I have to say I like the idea of a bit of writing. The cost of marking will deffo go through the roof now though, so it must have been a very driven decision to add the creative.
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frangipani
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:17 pm
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
South bucks
For as long as I remember we have always had creative writing, but it is not marked, it is only used for appeals.
This still stands and the only difference to the written piece is that it's shorter.
The new piece is multiple choice English.
For as long as I remember we have always had creative writing, but it is not marked, it is only used for appeals.
This still stands and the only difference to the written piece is that it's shorter.
The new piece is multiple choice English.
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
Yes, there is no writing in the marked kent test. That element has not changed, thank goodness.
Where there is a selective test a lot of people will always want to do more than one as an insurance police because children do not always perform as well as they can on the day. Whether or not a parent would put the school first choice is not relevant. There can be few parents entering children for tests for schools they would with 100 per cent certainty never take up a place at.
How much is your bucks test costing from c e m and how much was it from g l, and did it vary depending on the numbers that actually sat the test?
The new kent test this year is slightly cheaper than previous years, but it is much shorter. The cost reduction is not proportionate.
I presume the more schools band together to purchase a test from g l or c e m the higher the price. Otherwise all 164 grammars could club together to have one superb tutor proof test constructed (ha!) and c e m and g l test revenues would go down significantly.
Where there is a selective test a lot of people will always want to do more than one as an insurance police because children do not always perform as well as they can on the day. Whether or not a parent would put the school first choice is not relevant. There can be few parents entering children for tests for schools they would with 100 per cent certainty never take up a place at.
How much is your bucks test costing from c e m and how much was it from g l, and did it vary depending on the numbers that actually sat the test?
The new kent test this year is slightly cheaper than previous years, but it is much shorter. The cost reduction is not proportionate.
I presume the more schools band together to purchase a test from g l or c e m the higher the price. Otherwise all 164 grammars could club together to have one superb tutor proof test constructed (ha!) and c e m and g l test revenues would go down significantly.
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southbucks3
- Posts: 3579
- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 am
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
Oops, I was getting mixed up, it is another area that has just had creative writing popped in. Essex maybe?
Anyway, at the end of the day I really just wish there were an infinite amount of funds, so every child in the country had the very best education suited directly to them, at a local school, assessed through teaching and testing combined, not by parents income or one off tests. That however sounds very "miss world " ish, and as I have neither the looks nor the age to carry that particular title off, I will bail out.
Anyway, at the end of the day I really just wish there were an infinite amount of funds, so every child in the country had the very best education suited directly to them, at a local school, assessed through teaching and testing combined, not by parents income or one off tests. That however sounds very "miss world " ish, and as I have neither the looks nor the age to carry that particular title off, I will bail out.
Re: How much is the national cost of 11+ testing, who pays?
I think that might be a universal system of good comprehensives where every locality also had a balanced social mix.
