New statesman article....

[southbucks3]

Ted heath...............won a scholarship to an independent grammar, not a state school.

Really?
Ted Heath went to study at Chatham House Grammar School, Ramsgate which is now confederated with the sister school, Clarenden House and now called Chatham & Clarenden Grammar School.

http://www.ccgrammarschool.co.uk/35/abo ... federation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ccgrammarschool.co.uk/upload ... c-2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it was an independent school, why would it become an Academy? It may have started as independent in 1700s, but to my knowledge was a selective grammar in 1940s.

He was long gone by the 40's...do your research tbs..your blue friends made the education act in 1944, state grammar funding did not start until Labour pursued the act from 1945, and even then the first lowly grammer attendees were funded by state scholarship, full state funding happened mostly under Labour during the following 5 years. Scholarships were previously offered by school trustees, church, charitable groups, businesses, local parish councils and individuals. My dad's scholarship came from the church, as his dad was ill, and on limited working hours.

I have completely forgotten what point you were trying to make, but I know that political persuasion and how an elected party messes with the education system does not seem to follow any pattern historically.

[tiffinboys]

May be you are right about Chatham House, but I could not find date when it became totally free. However, it seems to be selective school even before Ted Heath joined it.

[Kiwimum]

Here's a couple more not-so-great examples of our education system:

Joe Bloggs. Went to a low acheiving state upper. Has been living on long term benefits since leaving school at 16 with limited qualifications. Suffers from alcohol and drug addiction and has criminal record.

Joanne Bloggs. Bright girl at primary, but parents had limited education and income so didn't provide any 11+ tutors or parental preparation. She took the 11 plus but failed so went to state upper. Since failing the 11 plus at age 10 she never felt worthy or destined for any academic achievement. Got pregnant at 15 and left school. Now a single mum, living on benefits, suffering from obesity and depression.

I don't think anyone is saying the Grammar schools don't provide a good education and opportunities for the lucky minority who get the chance to go to them like Thatcher and Heath did.

You can quote as many social mobility success stories as you like, but for every one that you come up with, there will be hundreds of unknown people in our society that the system has failed.

The point that you seem to ignore is that a 2 tier system does not necessarily provide the best education and opportunities for the 80% MAJORITY who DON'T get the chance to go to grammar school. Being judged as not bright enough based on a single test at age 10 could potentially damage the aspirations and futures of these children.

Here's one for you Proud Dad....

Two girls of similar intelligence attended the same LA primary school then went on to the local Ofsted Outstanding Comprehensive, the school was only several years old and had all the bells and whistles possible, the teaching at the school was excellent.
One girl passed her GCSE's with flying colours, is now in sixth form and looking forward to studying art at university.
The other girl got pregnant at 15, dropped out of school and is on the waiting list for council housing.

The education these girls received was identical, there were no grammars schools in the area to blame the second girl's situation on. The home situation of these two girls were very different, the pregnant 15 year old following in the footsteps of her mother.

I think blaming alcohol and drug addiction, criminal records, teenage pregnancy, obesity and depression on Grammars Schools and Upper Schools is unfair if you haven't looked at the incident rates of these from Comprehensive Schools too.