Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

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Daogroupie
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Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by Daogroupie »

So you actually think that more tutoring is going on not less? DG
mystery
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Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by mystery »

Sorry I am not the right person to answer that one, but it would make sense as the Bucks CEM test covers so much more than the old Bucks test which was just VR. The types that would have bought tuition before are going to buy even more of it if they can one would have thought? It's only logical.

In Kent, they didn't go CEM, they have stuck with GL Assessment for this year but modified it in some not yet clear way because of "tutoring". Our old GL test was maths, VR, and NVR. The new test is a "reasoning" paper and a paper testing "attainment in maths and literacy". So if you would have tutored before, this time you do the same thing but add English to the battery of what you want your child to be taught surely?

I haven't seen a new 11plus test come out yet which would reduce the amount of tutoring people purchased. Have you?
Daogroupie
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Location: Herts

Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by Daogroupie »

No, the advent of CEM seems to have heralded all the original tutoring plus extra classes in CEM in my area as HBS are using CEM as a first round and still then doing the English and Maths papers that they did before. CEM has become an extra subject to prepare for. Is this the case in Bucks? DG
berks_mum
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Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by berks_mum »

Based on my discussion with some parents, apparently CEM has increased the need for tutoring. Parents who had the first child in were confident of DIYing second,third … child but not anymore (thanks to CEM they say).
Amber
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Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by Amber »

berks_mum wrote:Based on my discussion with some parents, apparently CEM has increased the need for tutoring. Parents who had the first child in were confident of DIYing second,third … child but not anymore (thanks to CEM they say).
I wonder if it is because VR was a measurable and very clearly tutorable skill. I imagine knowing that suddenly anything can be tested increases parental insecurity and makes people think they need to do more, across the board. I suppose what will happen next is that the market will diversify and tutors will begin to specialise in different areas of the CEM tests - this will increase parental spend and amount of time children are working with tutors. Round here there seem anecdotally to be two schools of thought - one seems to be an inclination to use private prep schools more, if you can afford them, on the basis that they will prepare children across the board better; the other seems to be a resignation - we won't bother with tutors as there is no point and my child would never get in anyway so no point even sitting the test.

I would love to see CEM throw a few wild cards into the tests, like a recipe to follow, some map reading to do or a structure to build out of bottle tops or something. It would be fun to see the tutors flapping around the following year trying to predict what might come next.

I hope it is the beginning of the end for the idea of selective education but if it were shown to increase equality of access then at least that would be a step in the right direction. I hope someone is doing some research on whether the demographics of children getting into GS change at all because of it.
berks_mum
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Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by berks_mum »

Amber wrote:
berks_mum wrote:Based on my discussion with some parents, apparently CEM has increased the need for tutoring. Parents who had the first child in were confident of DIYing second,third … child but not anymore (thanks to CEM they say).
I wonder if it is because VR was a measurable and very clearly tutorable skill. I imagine knowing that suddenly anything can be tested increases parental insecurity and makes people think they need to do more, across the board. I suppose what will happen next is that the market will diversify and tutors will begin to specialise in different areas of the CEM tests - this will increase parental spend and amount of time children are working with tutors. Round here there seem anecdotally to be two schools of thought - one seems to be an inclination to use private prep schools more, if you can afford them, on the basis that they will prepare children across the board better; the other seems to be a resignation - we won't bother with tutors as there is no point and my child would never get in anyway so no point even sitting the test.
The percentage of school one is high enough to keep the touring industry afloat (or even flourish). Whether it is unreasonable or not is another discussion by itself.
I would love to see CEM throw a few wild cards into the tests, like a recipe to follow, some map reading to do or a structure to build out of bottle tops or something. It would be fun to see the tutors flapping around the following year trying to predict what might come next.
Smart tutors will tailor their tuition to align with the changes in the selection process. So I doubt if it will put an end to the tutoring industry. I think (sadly) the tutoring industry is bound to stay as long as selective education(competition) exists. Best case scenario will be to have some regulation in place…say capping the touring hours,fees,contents,homework limits etc.
I hope it is the beginning of the end for the idea of selective education but if it were shown to increase equality of access then at least that would be a step in the right direction. I hope someone is doing some research on whether the demographics of children getting into GS change at all because of it.
Do you think a difference in University entry criteria for grammar vs non grammar would reduce the grammar attraction ? Some kind of standardisation in levels/scores across the two streams to reduce the advantage of one over the other ?
southbucks3
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Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by southbucks3 »

The only way to curb parental desire tutoring would to be to ensure that all the primary schools followed the same books, spent the same amount of time teaching the 11+ subjects, had the same return to school date, and provided the same after school classes. As it is we have one primary teacher telling parents that there is absolutely no need for any extra work, whilst another is laying on after school vocab and maths clubs for year 5 and another calling children back to school in August to cram.
Even within the same school, some children are given extra work sheets and harder homework, whilst others stick with the basic lesson plan, fair enough? NO! They should at least provide all children with the work sheet copy or internet link and allow parents to work through them with the child if they choose.

There would still be parents and tutors trying to give children the edge, but at least everyone would feel their child was being given the same depth of education in the classroom.

I have to say, we are lucky and do have great core hour teaching, although I do wish June and July were spent on re-visiting all maths and English topics, rather than playing so much..they can play in the hols.
kenyancowgirl
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Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Do you think a difference in University entry criteria for grammar vs non grammar would reduce the grammar attraction ? Some kind of standardisation in levels/scores across the two streams to reduce the advantage of one over the other ?

Only if a similar standardisation existed at 11+ and university entry for private school applicants as well.
berks_mum
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Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:52 pm

Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by berks_mum »

southbucks3 wrote: Even within the same school, some children are given extra work sheets and harder homework, whilst others stick with the basic lesson plan, fair enough? NO! They should at least provide all children with the work sheet copy or internet link and allow parents to work through them with the child if they choose.
Really, is that what happens across the sets ? There was me thinking that children are grouped into sets to distribute the teacher's workload. Didn't know that they are exposed to a different curriculum across the sets and even for homework. OMG, panic button pressed…
Questions/Action items-
1) Do they move sets if they are not in the top set right from the beginning ?
2) Need to make sure DD is in top set for each subject.
3) How do i make sure of #1 ? More tutoring ? Arguing with the teacher ? :lol:
4) Change school ... House move … keeps the economy going. :)
berks_mum
Posts: 939
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:52 pm

Re: Durham CEM 11+ - So far so good?

Post by berks_mum »

kenyancowgirl wrote:Do you think a difference in University entry criteria for grammar vs non grammar would reduce the grammar attraction ? Some kind of standardisation in levels/scores across the two streams to reduce the advantage of one over the other ?

Only if a similar standardisation existed at 11+ and university entry for private school applicants as well.
Yes, I forgot to add private schools.

I didn't get your point - standardisation at 11+ ? If Uni admissions were solely based on standardised A level results then whether you came from Grammar,Private or Comp should not make a difference. No ?
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