Nfer Scores re Real 11+ Scores
Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators
-
mum2
-
perplexed
??????
Mum2
86% in exactly which practice papers? And how do you know this is the raw score that you need to pass in your county? Do they publish raw scores each year? Surely also each year the difficulty of the actual papers must vary slightly, and the calibre of the cohort vary slightly, and this is all adjusted through standardisation so that the top 25% of the candidates (or whatever percentage is selected in your county) are deemed to have passed?
These precise percentages sound very misleading to me.
86% in exactly which practice papers? And how do you know this is the raw score that you need to pass in your county? Do they publish raw scores each year? Surely also each year the difficulty of the actual papers must vary slightly, and the calibre of the cohort vary slightly, and this is all adjusted through standardisation so that the top 25% of the candidates (or whatever percentage is selected in your county) are deemed to have passed?
These precise percentages sound very misleading to me.
-
Guest
I think it is true that percentages required are higher in many areas as there has been an explosion of tuition/tutored children and more awareness as to the exams and what they entail. You can even see that this forum did not exist 3 years ago and people are not aware of what standards need to be achieved, having to go by local knowledge ,past parents/students or as in my case ,total ignorance.
In our primary school 4 years ago only 2 got a grammar school places whereas now 14 have secured places. Generally, the tutor scene seems more active than say 4 or 5 years ago.
My own child score in the high 90% for nfer papers and whatever we were using from the commercial bookshops.
It is not bragging or scaremongering as I can see from the number of children who did not get grammar school places how much tougher the competition has become.
If your child is scoring in the 80s but there is nothing to lose from sitting exams, everything to gain and you feel your child is going to benefit from a grammar school education, you should still go for it!
In our primary school 4 years ago only 2 got a grammar school places whereas now 14 have secured places. Generally, the tutor scene seems more active than say 4 or 5 years ago.
My own child score in the high 90% for nfer papers and whatever we were using from the commercial bookshops.
It is not bragging or scaremongering as I can see from the number of children who did not get grammar school places how much tougher the competition has become.
If your child is scoring in the 80s but there is nothing to lose from sitting exams, everything to gain and you feel your child is going to benefit from a grammar school education, you should still go for it!
-
Meg
An interesting thread!
My son too passed the 11+ last year after getting "only" 70-75% in practice papers (he didn't have a tutor, only me).
It would be interesting to see some actual stats of the raw score required. I too suspect that the scores needed are not as high as many on this site seem to think.
Take Buckinghamshire for example (not my child's county) :
if 30%+ of children are capable of achieving >86% and this is a true reflection of their ability (usually equating to an IQ of 130+ or the top <5% of the population/ 2 SD from the norm), the grammar schools they attend are actually underperforming in relation to grammars in other counties, where apparently lower scores are required to qualify for schools which regularly outperform Bucks grammars.
It is time for a true test of a child's ability to be developed, one in which parents have no idea of each year's format and all children have a chance to be selected by ability, rather than ability to coach one's child.
My son too passed the 11+ last year after getting "only" 70-75% in practice papers (he didn't have a tutor, only me).
It would be interesting to see some actual stats of the raw score required. I too suspect that the scores needed are not as high as many on this site seem to think.
Take Buckinghamshire for example (not my child's county) :
if 30%+ of children are capable of achieving >86% and this is a true reflection of their ability (usually equating to an IQ of 130+ or the top <5% of the population/ 2 SD from the norm), the grammar schools they attend are actually underperforming in relation to grammars in other counties, where apparently lower scores are required to qualify for schools which regularly outperform Bucks grammars.
It is time for a true test of a child's ability to be developed, one in which parents have no idea of each year's format and all children have a chance to be selected by ability, rather than ability to coach one's child.
-
mum2
the trouble with our area is that there is competition from a wide area including London. The pupils are being tutored excessively because of the competition, the marks given are from primary schools, tutors and secondary schools. I agree it is not a true reflection of the child's ability and many struggle once they are in the grammar school. If we had less competition then I'm sure the % needed would come down. It means also that children from this area are being deprived of places when they are very capeable.
Dear All
It really does vary depending on what part of the country you live in. Here in Bucks [Totally selective County] the pass mark, in deed is quite high approx 86% for a minimum pass, of course this varies each year because of standardisation.
The main reasons for such a high pass mark...[a quote from Bucks County]
.................................................................................
The Buckinghamshire tested cohort is an able group compared to the national group. This is because:
1] Children in Buckinghamshire generally perform better than the national averages
2] In-county children are offered an ‘opt out’ and where parents opt out of testing for their child it is often because the 11+ is not felt relevant as the child is in the bottom quartile of the group
3] Children entering from out of county and independent schools are a self selecting group which includes fewer lower performing candidates.
..............................................................................
My thoughts on 3] This group are highly tutored, a VERY large % pass, again pushing up the pass mark. Some independents [ I have actual knowledge of this] not only give up to 2 years preparation, the parents hire tutors in addition!]
Dear Meg
Yes it does seem that some Bucks Grammars under perform in comparison to others....
Would love to see a breakdown of these figures in Bucks to see which children are underperforming.
Is it the non tutored children?
Is it the highly tutored children from out of County and Independent Schools.
Is it the tutored children from in County?
Is it children getting in on appeal? [ I have seen evidence that this group perform well ]
Is it children gaining entry at 12/13 plus [late entry]
Or is it a mixture?
Patricia
It really does vary depending on what part of the country you live in. Here in Bucks [Totally selective County] the pass mark, in deed is quite high approx 86% for a minimum pass, of course this varies each year because of standardisation.
The main reasons for such a high pass mark...[a quote from Bucks County]
.................................................................................
The Buckinghamshire tested cohort is an able group compared to the national group. This is because:
1] Children in Buckinghamshire generally perform better than the national averages
2] In-county children are offered an ‘opt out’ and where parents opt out of testing for their child it is often because the 11+ is not felt relevant as the child is in the bottom quartile of the group
3] Children entering from out of county and independent schools are a self selecting group which includes fewer lower performing candidates.
..............................................................................
My thoughts on 3] This group are highly tutored, a VERY large % pass, again pushing up the pass mark. Some independents [ I have actual knowledge of this] not only give up to 2 years preparation, the parents hire tutors in addition!]
Dear Meg
Yes it does seem that some Bucks Grammars under perform in comparison to others....
Would love to see a breakdown of these figures in Bucks to see which children are underperforming.
Is it the non tutored children?
Is it the highly tutored children from out of County and Independent Schools.
Is it the tutored children from in County?
Is it children getting in on appeal? [ I have seen evidence that this group perform well ]
Is it children gaining entry at 12/13 plus [late entry]
Or is it a mixture?
Patricia
-
Guest
I too have been worried by the suggestions that my son needs to score 9o% +. We have only practiced 2 VR and 2 maths papers in which he got about 70% as he didn't finish either. In the practice test he came about 80th out of 320. His standardised score was a total of 78 so this seems to be different to those stating 120+ for standardised scores as this was obviously above average. By the way this is Plymouth
-
Guest
geogwoman,
Don't worry: the score of 78 you refer to is likely to be his adjusted raw score, not his standardised score.
My understanding is that standardised scores are simply a way of comparing a range of scores achieved in a particular test. These should be "normally distributed" i.e. look like a bell curve when plotted on a graph.
This usually gives a mean score of 100 and is plotted to 2 standard deviations either side of this. It then doesn't matter what the actual raw score was, just where the score was in relation to all the others.
As your child was 80th out of 320, this puts him just into the top 25% , which would usually equate to a standardised score of 112 I think.
This explains things better than I can:
http://www.nfer.ac.uk/research-areas/as ... sation.cfm
In my area, Grammars are supposed to educate the top 25%, so on this performance, he would just do it!
Don't worry: the score of 78 you refer to is likely to be his adjusted raw score, not his standardised score.
My understanding is that standardised scores are simply a way of comparing a range of scores achieved in a particular test. These should be "normally distributed" i.e. look like a bell curve when plotted on a graph.
This usually gives a mean score of 100 and is plotted to 2 standard deviations either side of this. It then doesn't matter what the actual raw score was, just where the score was in relation to all the others.
As your child was 80th out of 320, this puts him just into the top 25% , which would usually equate to a standardised score of 112 I think.
This explains things better than I can:
http://www.nfer.ac.uk/research-areas/as ... sation.cfm
In my area, Grammars are supposed to educate the top 25%, so on this performance, he would just do it!
