How come Tiffin Girls and HBS don't need to finalise pre-CAF

[Stroller]

There's probably a historical legal reason or a plausible challenge ahead, but I haven't stumbled across the supposedly acceptable reason yet. It's amazing to watch the results rolling in from everywhere else or at least to know that the stage two exams are underway. Yet, the girls who apply to either of these two schools and make it into round two won't have further news until March... Do any boys schools (or even any schools in any other boroughs) have a similar approach? It seems really unfair.

[agathachristie]

Sutton Grammar second stage test is not till November. So effectively one does not find out till March. Undermines the whole idea of making an informed choice in my opinion.

[Stroller]

The schools I mentioned haven't even released their first round results yet.

Hearing that here's another school who gets away with it is somewhat comforting / equally baffling. I assume it's deemed acceptable. Does anyone know on what basis?

[hermanmunster]

I am sure that there is some background to this but can't remember without digging... I suppose the schools etc would feel that even with a score from tests you cannot be sure where the "cut" for a place on March 1st will be , the first test helps to identify people who are more likely to get a place, the second test just refines it.

[loopylou]

The Admissions Code says the results must be made known to parents before the CAF wherever possible (or something along those lines). It isn't absolutely compulsory where reasonable steps have been taken
However in the case of schools with 2 rounds, it is likely that informing parents of the outcome of round 1 suffices in terms of meeting the requirements. There is no guidance as to the form that information should take. In some regions they interpret it as a letter with score, rank and a virtual invite to take up a place. In other regions, they interpret it as a simple differentiating between those who are of selective ability and those who are not deemed to be so.
Parents applying to Sutton Grammar for example already know whether their child is of selective ability since the stage 1 SET results are known before October 31st. Stage 2 is a narrowing down of all grammar school ability children so the result of that process isn't strictly required before October 31st even though other schools choose to give far more guidance.

[hermanmunster]

that is the point, the ones who pass stage 1 are of selective ability, bit like passing the whole thing and being in an area with very limited GS places. Where 600 might be eligible for 300 plaes but no one knows until March 1st as to whether their child will get a place.

in some areas it is distance - eg North Yorks where some years all who pass get a place and in other years it comes down to being less than 6 miles out of catchment. - lots of guessing over patterns of previous years and eligible numbers but really down't know until March 1st

Others it is score and despite some clever data gathering and last years scores, people still don't know.

[loopylou]

That's right. There is no requirement for parents to know whether their child is highly likely to get a place based on October's results.
By giving stage 1 results, schools are meeting the requirements of the code even if that information is of limited use in areas where hundreds will proceed to stage 2.

[Stroller]

Thanks for explaining it. I still dislike the fact that they are choosing that route btw. We have had no results yet and no indication of when they may appear.

Meanwhile DD asked me if she could do the exam for the local comp "even though I know you said they don't have one." I offered to write to the principal and ask could DD sit near the principal's office for a while some day and write a story for them, just so they could both feel she's done something to earn a place! (We don't have a right to a place there - it depends on whether there are still unfilled places by the time they reach applicants from where we live). I think we're losing the plot.

We've visited loads of schools and can see clear positives and negatives for each of them (including the two super-selectives I named above). Just wish the future wasn't going to remain so unclear, for so long.

[loopylou]

The current situation is some improvement on the system 4 or 5 years ago where nobody knew any result until March. Some schools held their first and only exam in November or even January. As a result some parents had to make tough choices about whether to list all of the grammar schools they might like or limit themselves to ensure they had decent comprehensives down too. Now at least, parents can discount the schools their children have not passed for.

Just as you cannot be sure how far the catchment will extend each year for a comprehensive school, unless your child achieves a top score in a school which supplies scores and ranking (or which has enough spaces for all who pass) many people are none the wiser until March - or even beyond when waiting lists become a possibility.
It is very hard and everyone wants to know as soon as possible. Some people will have a good idea where they stand in the next few weeks, most people will have a definite answer in March and a few people will have to wait a little longer. It is best to play it down as much as you can for the pupils involved and talk positively about all their options. I am not sure how best to ease the worry for parents though - I never quite mastered that one!

[tiffinboys]

I think that this arrangement of 2nd stage test after CAF deadlines violates the Admission Code requirements and the previous decision of the School Adjudicator was not correct. And two years have already passed since last challenge, it's time to challenge Tiffin Girls, Sutton Grammar and now, Henrietta Barnett as well.