Is it true that tutored children struggle afterwards?

[salsa]

Setting causes so many problems, though. More than it solves?

My youngest, in year 6, is in a set for English and Maths and is doing well. As he is in the top set, he feels very good about himself. However, his very good friend, who is dyslexic, feels terrible in the bottom set and has lost all self esteem. My son tries to lift him up, but it is difficult.

My eldest, at grammar and in year 9, has not worked in sets. The school says they don't set, which I found surprising at first. I did observe some classes recently and could see the teacher pairing them up. I asked what criteria he had used to which he responded that it was those who could concentrate better with those who couldn't. This, as he considered they were all of similar ability.

They taught them in their forms for the first two years and then mixed them up for year 9. I wondered what criteria they followed, but it wasn't clear. There are some children doing exceptionally well and others who are not doing so well, but they are all in the new groups.

I know they do something for Maths, as they all have a number, a colour and something else. Sometimes the teacher pairs them up according to their number or colour, etc. So, maybe some clever setting is going on, but in not clear to anyone. I do prefer it this way as there are no massive self confidence issues.

About rugby teams, it was also a mystery. They keep us guessing at that school!

Salsa

[Sparklecat]

I wonder if anyone has ever studied the effects of widespread tuition in an area. Virtually every child on our year 5 top tables for Maths and English has had preparation and/or tuition, and quite a few on the lower tables. Does Kent get higher Year 6 SATS results?

[Aethel]

It's not just in Kent... we live in Berkshire and at our reasonably-well-performing state school ( not in a "posh" area, we have a very mixed demographic), my DD's maths set was asked unofficially if they had been having tuition... at least 3/4 of the class put their hands up.... we were considered unusual for DIYing. I don't think our KS2 results are better for this though, because different things are being prepared for. KS2 bobbins like "fronted adverbials" doesn't improve if the tutored kids are busy learning how to decode shuffled sentences, for example.....

[mickabc155]

In reply to this I wish to stop the hysteria. Naturally we all worry, but actually just as we all did when we were all kids, we did our best and we did well.

We should give the same respect to our 10 yr old sitting the test. Mine passed with 4 months revision amd tutoring by myself.

I would be willing to share my success. My son passed the Reading test, he starts in 2017.

[Sparklecat]

Thanks for your thoughts. In some respects you are correct. We are told that schools do not teach the skills required to pass an 11+ exam, although I don't really believe that. There must be some crossover; Maths is Maths and English is English. Even NVR must increase the ability to answer Maths questions. My child has always been comfortably top table and a year or two ahead of expectations (sorry for the boast). Just two months of group tutoring has seen her test scores rise by 20%. Is this effect temporary? Do they stop bothering and slip back to previous attainment in Year 6? All this time, money and effort for a one off exam, when you could just look at their work throughout primary school years. Not sure what point I am trying to make beyond a general unease with the system as it stands.

[mystery]

I think whatever method one came up with for deciding on a dividing line to separate children out in year 6, just in order to give them the same education anyhow, is bound to give you a feeling of unease. There isn't going to be a perfect one. If one's going to insist on doing it - and the idea seems to be getting more popular not less at the moment - then at least this one is cheap for the public purse even if it isn't for parents who pay tutors or who get home early from work to DIY i.e. for anyone who for whatever reason thinks primary school alone is not giving their child their best chance of passing whatever hoop is in place in their area.

[kelwaypops]

whilst i think most mothers that post here will disagree, i don't really agree with tutoring prior to sitting the 11+ as i think GS should be based on NATURAL ability. There are a fair few naturally very clever kids who have parents that cannot afford to go down the GS route as they cannot compete with the overly tutored kids. I know a tutor who had problems with some parents whereby they would not accept that their child was not clever enough to comfortably be able to study at a GS but the parents would not accept despite the tutor telling them their child would struggle/be unhappy if they did get a place. i have known of a few 'average' kids (middle sets at primary school) getting into GS due to having been heavily tutored with v & non v test papers. I don't think a place at a GS should be treated like 'an award' deserving due to the most prep' work done to get in. 20 odd years ago it was not like this. Children were not prep'd and sat exams based on their natural ability which gave a fairer chance to people that couldn't afford tutors. Plenty of folk sending their kids there just to get out of paying private school fees that they could otherwise afford but plenty couldn't

[Enjoyingthejourney]

Kelwaypops, that sounds really hard to measure. How would you define 'natural ability'? This is the good old nature vs nurture debate again. Tuition is what happens in school. Some schools are better than others. A private tutor will simply focus on your child. Even DIY is tuition. The only reason we make distinctions is because the alternative would be to highlight that a primary classroom is inadequate. I would argue that it is but that would then cause problems with the government addressing the concept of free education and whether it can cater to the needs of our children.
As for natural ability, a child may have the capacity to do say, a question on ratio. But if faced with such a question without having been taught the theory, they will struggle. Similarly, vocabulary is not innate. How will you know the definition of any word without having come across it or a variant of it at some point. Can a successful 11plus candidate do the test in French and get the same result?
It really is a difficult problem when one goes down the road of 'natural ability'. There is no such thing as a fair test, it seems. Unless potential students are thrown into the wilderness as infants and collected again when they turn 10, maybe? And the opposite of 'ability' would be 'inability'. I do not feel that anyone, especially a child of 10 should have such a label.

[Daogroupie]

So you do not mention prep schools and parents, just tutors. Do you count the first two as tutoring as prep students tell me they spend lots of time at school before all selective exams doing past papers to prepare? I also know of students who are doing papers daily with their parents. DG

[kelwaypops]

tutoring is tutoring whoever is doing it and whilst it is commendable, not all parents have the time and or knowledge to tutor their children. The result is the same, that a child who is naturally clever but born into a family that is less able does not get a fair chance. I know there are many different views to this subject and i do get the reasoning of parents who heavily tutor/push their child to gain a gs place, i just don't agree with it.