Is being obsessed with the 11 plus 'normal'?

[Bazelle]

To come back to the OP, I do miss the eleven plus buzz, it did take over my life for 18 months and I had spreadsheets on every device possible, and I too work full time ...my DS did really well though but I ended up exhausted when we finally got the offers. But to my surprise I keep coming back to this forum, which is a bit worrying! I love the concepts of 11+ rehab and Hotel California, most appropriate! Xx

[Lloydcole]

Sorry, Bazelle is right, we have have veered off track.

I too was (am) obsessed with the 11plus. Living in central London we had very limited choice vis a vis an independent school that didn't involve a long commute South or North. Having put off thinking about this/dealing with it (head in sand syndrome), once we started the 11plus journey I became fully engrossed, trawling the Internet for past papers, getting excited when I found one with an interesting comprehension that would appeal to Ds or a maths paper containing questions that would really stretch him ( v sad). It took over my life and I became an 11 plus bore. Same for a few of my very good friends. I remember someone giving me a Manchester Grammar paper from 2005, which is not widely available, and it was as though all my Christmases had come at once! (did I just admit to that?)

I still check this site out obsessively but I keep telling myself it's because of Dd in year 5!

Bazelle, from your previous posts I know that our DC's will be at the same school come September!

[Lloydcole]

Sorry Amber, you have lost me.....

Why do you presume that parents who find themselves encouraging/nagging their children to revise more, text, game, FaceTime etc less didn't allow these children "to choose what they want to play with" or have "free access to play dough, Lego, different papers and pen and chalks, and to mud and dirt, when tiny"? I don't see the connection.

I am not a "tiger mum". Neither of my children showed any interest in playing a musical instrument and I didn't push it, despite everyone telling me that this was a recipe for 11plus disaster. My Ds is in year 6. Structured extra curricular activities wise it's football, that's it. His choice. He has lots of unusual interests that he pursues independently (obsession with amphibians, reptiles, insects etc). He is bright and relatively focused. In January he sat the 11 plus for a number of super selective London independent schools. To this end it was necessary for him and me to work together during the Christmas holidays as he simply hadn't covered in school many of the topics that come up ( formal algebra, dividing fractions, writers techniques, pathetic fallacy etc) and because of how competitive it is to get a place at said schools.

If it was up to him would Ds have spent the whole time playing clash of clans, minecraft and facetiming his friends? Probably. Was he allowed to play with what he wanted when tiny and have access to Lego, play dough etc? Of course!

I hope that as he gets older he won't need me to nag him to get off his Ipad and study but if he can't prioritise I will have to prioritise for him...

[Lloydcole]

My posts have come up in the wrong order?

[salsa]

Gosh you are organised OP! If that is what works for you, then, so be it. Not everyone will be able or willing to be so organised and thorough.

With regards to the micromanaging, not all children are the same. There are some very sensible ones with a clear career path for whom it will be easy to find a career with little support. There are other lost ones who will need more help. The real art is to know when to remove the safety net.

From a parent's perspective, if you do too little there may be guilt for being "neglectful"; if you do too much there may be guilt for stopping their development. I hope that if we are tuned to our children we will be wise to know the right amount of help and have no regrets. Easier said than done!

What is true is that in this forum you will find like minded people who will support your views. On the other hand, you will find some who will be fiercely opposed to them. Knowing how to take the latter will make your life easier. Welcome!

[Bazelle]

Sorry, Bazelle is right, we have have veered off track.

I too was (am) obsessed with the 11plus. Living in central London we had very limited choice vis a vis an independent school that didn't involve a long commute South or North. Having put off thinking about this/dealing with it (head in sand syndrome), once we started the 11plus journey I became fully engrossed, trawling the Internet for past papers, getting excited when I found one with an interesting comprehension that would appeal to Ds or a maths paper containing questions that would really stretch him ( v sad). It took over my life and I became an 11 plus bore. Same for a few of my very good friends. I remember someone giving me a Manchester Grammar paper from 2005, which is not widely available, and it was as though all my Christmases had come at once! (did I just admit to that?)

I still check this site out obsessively but I keep telling myself it's because of Dd in year 5!

Bazelle, from your previous posts I know that our DC's will be at the same school come September!

I too have a DD in year 5 but her secondary school is sorted, she will carry on at the same school she is now, and I have DD2 in year 2, so surely I could take a break now?!
I am really excited about the secondary school of our DSs Loyldcole, I hope they will flourish there!

[silverysea]

We finished with 11+ forever Sept 2013.

I still visit here from time to time, and even post if I'm not too busy it's a very active and interesting forum far beyond just 11+. I can really see the different sides to the arguments.

Now I am obsessing with 6th form choice, trying to make sure that a proactive choice IS taken, even if it's to stay with the current school. I blame 11+ for this heightened awareness! Or addiction. But glad I'm not sleepwalking into it, like I sadly did when I let dd1 follow the herd into the wrong school for her, against my instincts at the time- but between her and DH wanting an easy life, that's what happened. It didn't happen with dd2 and I am doing my darnedest to rectify past mistakes, in our case more parental input was needed and It has been going well. Dd1 is a great young adult, a joy to parent (especially compared to stress junkie dd2) and constantly thanks me for trying to help even if she disagrees, and is pathetically grateful when I let her go to i.e. sleepover (about 4 in the past 12 months) since many parents say no all the time. However we are only in year 10.

One of my staff at work in a low level job and no ambition to change, but I know is very bright, recently told me she wishes her parents had pushed her more, though she loves them dearly. She's never said a word about such matters before but we were chatting at a break, it really struck me.

Back to my spreadsheets.

[sbarnes]

opinions of parents and what we are experiencing with our children at years 10/11 at gcse is more credible that parents whose children are still at the early years of secondaries, just my opinion. Formulate/articulate opinions once you get here. I would rather intervene now if exam results are poor than watch child struggle/bumble his/her way through very stressful formal exam process for the sake of, what was it again, independence card. The motto of this site is Head for success, whether it be 11+ or the next big ones. How we as parents achieve this is down to that parent and the most appropriate method that works for that child, only that parent knows best. For others that have not formulated a strategy, there are various pieces of advice on offer on this site. And yes, there is fierce opposition on both sides of the debate.

[Amber]

Sorry Amber, you have lost me.....

Why do you presume that parents who find themselves encouraging/nagging their children to revise more, text, game, FaceTime etc less didn't allow these children "to choose what they want to play with" or have "free access to play dough, Lego, different papers and pen and chalks, and to mud and dirt, when tiny"? I don't see the connection.

I don't know if you deliberately misunderstood or twisted my words or if I genuinely didn't make clear what I was trying to say. Apologies if it is the latter - but I don't 'presume' any such thing. Either way this thread is about something else now (and was intended to be so) so I shall only answer briefly.

DAOG was asking if there was a 'secret' to getting children to be the kind who will sit down and work alone; I was offering up some ideas for how I think one might achieve it. My personal belief is that allowing children freedom from a young age rather than organising their time for them is of benefit in this department. It has nothing to do with play dough - I assume most kids get to play with it - but rather I was using that as an illustration of a child thinking 'hmm, I fancy playing with play dough now' rather than a parent saying 'today we will do play dough' (I have even seen parents trying to make a 2-year old's name out of play dough!). I was trying to communicate a philosophy of parenting which personally and professionally I believe is most likely to lead to children who are able to take mature decisions when they get to secondary school, and this is modelled on the idea of allowing children access to a range of materials and activities from which they can choose, for much of the time, rather than being taken to organised activities which often have an 'educational' objective. That is all. Not implying that 'all' parents who do these things are likely to run into issues when children are meant to be revising; nor indeed that allowing children to roam like feral cats will lead to them applying themselves to their studies when they are 16.

And now over to the subject of obsession with the 11 plus. As you were.

[hermanmunster]

I will micromanage in my nasty controlling suspicious way and smash the phone to bits if I have to. Or there is always turning off the electricity and resorting to candles and takeaways!

Micromanagement is counterproductive and yes it is nasty and controlling - (am currently cheering as micromanaging manager has got the sack everything is running fine as it would have done if she had left us to it.)

Don't have fancy phones in our house so no problem there.

This is a very tough, very screaming, shouting, door slamming object throwing road and there will be no thanks at the end as there was no thanks for 11 plus. I can clearly understand why parents are loathe to go down it. I would much rather be elsewhere right now too!

definitely no screaming, shouting, object throwing or door slamming needed - probably last shouted at a child 19 years ago when he was trying to stick his fingers in an electric socket.

I am sure there are some calm hard working households out there somewhere. Perhaps some forum members could tell me how to get there? We are in a temporary lull at the moment but will it last? DG

Emergency supplies of choccy biccies, jelly babies etc
Involve them in decisions from the earliest possible age
supplies of hot drinks
listening etc etc

TBH it is possibly just one of those things - kids arrive in the world with 2 parents with all the experiences that they can pass on plus set of genes, (of course both things closely related ).
Somehow my 2 have been calm and focussed since they first had an opinion on anything - possibly just the way they are, also they were aware of parents studying endlessly and it may have rubbed off - they probably just think it is part of life

ETA - cross posted with Amber's post above. Agree with that.