The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

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mystery
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by mystery »

Oh there are no cut and dried answers to what it is right or wrong to do with all nine or ten year olds in respect of an eleven plus test. There are so many variables to take into account.

Yes, hopefully by 18 all students are making their own minds up on what and where to study and their decisions are based on their own sensible research. There's no reason though why some discussion - or pointers to further info- with other adults including family members might not be part of the decisions making process.
Amber
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by Amber »

mystery wrote: There's no reason though why some discussion - or pointers to further info- with other adults including family members might not be part of the decisions making process.
I don't think anyone would ever suggest otherwise. We all need to bounce ideas around with our nearest and dearest and others too. But surely the lead must be from the young person themselves? And if they aren't taking that lead, then there is a message for parents there too. I speak with some considerable experience now of a child faced with an array of high-quality university choices which actually caused quite a few problems - but thank heavens we never tried to steer. The potential mental health consequences would have been horrific I fear; it is better to keep the talking channels open and listen to all the options without judging, and to support whatever decisions are taken even if that sometimes means having to explain to 'interested' others why the path taken is not the 'expected' one. The only thing which ultimately matters is that a person is happy and comfortable with choices they have made. If these choices aren't even their own, I would be very worried about the risks down the line.

Often the most interesting lives are those which have not followed a predictable line: I for one am proud of and glad for the varied careers I've had; for me the idea of my offspring being free spirits and divergent thinkers is far more important than going to this university or having that job.
southbucks3
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by southbucks3 »

Often the most interesting lives are those which have not followed a predictable line: I for one am proud of and glad for the varied careers I've had; for me the idea of my offspring being free spirits and divergent thinkers is far more important than going to this university or having that job.

Equally one of the loveliest people I know left school, followed his father's footsteps career wise, hasn't got a divergent thought in his head (that he chooses to vocalise) and is happier than anyone else in my social group and very popular too.
The funny thing is, his dad would never have insisted he follow him, he just naturally took the easiest path offered to him and is very successful in the field chosen by him and his father before him.

And no, it's not law or medicine.....

Nor, as it happens, did he pass his 11+
Amber
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by Amber »

Yes I can see some truth in that too SB3 - I think the 'happiest' people are very often those who don't feel the need to constantly question and challenge and who are able to accept life as it comes. I admire them and even in some ways envy them. I have never managed anything like the contentment which must presumably arise from knowing you have done exactly the right thing and are on the right path for life. I think that is probably a facet of personality which we can't choose - or maybe I need to become a Buddhist.


I wasn't talking 'lovely' people btw - I think that is more to do with an ability to empathise which often comes from experiencing adversity. The adjective I used was 'interesting' and it was about lives, not people.

Amateur philosophy rocks. 8)
ToadMum
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by ToadMum »

mystery wrote:Oh there are no cut and dried answers to what it is right or wrong to do with all nine or ten year olds in respect of an eleven plus test. There are so many variables to take into account.

Yes, hopefully by 18 all students are making their own minds up on what and where to study and their decisions are based on their own sensible research. There's no reason though why some discussion - or pointers to further info- with other adults including family members might not be part of the decisions making process.
Fearing that we would never get DS1 off our hands if we waited for him to get round to it :roll: , he chose the subject and type of course he wanted and yes, I admit it, I presented him with a list of possible universities based mainly on those with which I had had professional contact and respect for the academics with whom I had worked. Not necessarily the best way to do it, naturally; it's quite possible for a university to have a brilliant Department of General Practice or Health Economics or whatever and a totally grim School of Biosciences, of course, but on the whole it seems to have worked quite well. Of course, he had free choice with regard to my suggestions and had he found a uni not on the list which looked suitable to him, we would have been quite happy. Not to mention a bit flabbergasted.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
southbucks3
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by southbucks3 »

Amber wrote:Yes I can see some truth in that too SB3 - I think the 'happiest' people are very often those who don't feel the need to constantly question and challenge and who are able to accept life as it comes. I admire them and even in some ways envy them. I have never managed anything like the contentment which must presumably arise from knowing you have done exactly the right thing and are on the right path for life. I think that is probably a facet of personality which we can't choose - or maybe I need to become a Buddhist.


I wasn't talking 'lovely' people btw - I think that is more to do with an ability to empathise which often comes from experiencing adversity. The adjective I used was 'interesting' and it was about lives, not people.

Amateur philosophy rocks. 8)

Exceptionally (I know it's,rare) /but he gets to meet all sorts,of characters and is flown out to various places every year to provide his services to the very rich and famous, which makes for great conversation too. I think that his amiable, shrug of the shoulders, character is the reason he is a success. Maybe when we are pushed beyond our natural instincts we become less accepting of others in later life?
Catseye
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by Catseye »

"Pushing hard for the 11+." What does this mean?

a) If it means familiarising a child to format of an 11+ exam and providing practice material/papers then it is not pushing too far imo.

b) If it means accelerated learning above and beyond what is required then this is detrimental to a child -10 yr olds doing gcse level English or Maths is the road to disaster and resentment.

c) if on going tutoring is inveterate, this is detrimental to child/young person imo

d) If tutoring is required to consolidate or correct a fundamental flaw in a young person's understanding then private tutoring is perfectly acceptable imo.
doodles
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Re: The Advantages of pushing hard for the 11+

Post by doodles »

Another one for ginx - well said. Let them be children whilst they can, you're a long time a grown up!
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