Not Pushing children

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:32 pm

mum3,

Just because you think the school you know is like this please don't assume all GS are!

As a GS teacher I can tell you this is ccertainly NOT true of the Buckinghamshire schools I know - all the teachers work extrememly hard to ensure ALL pupils reach their potential.

I object to you criticising all GS teachers in this way -

mum3 · Post by **mum3** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:00 pm

Guest 55, I am sure you are a very dedicated teacher. I have read lots of your posts and agree with all of them so I am certainly not tarring YOU with the same brush, but I have truly been told these things by at least one teacher at my sons' grammar school (not in Bucks).

chad · Post by **chad** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:29 pm

Parents helping and giving a false impression of what the child is actually achieving doesnt actually help in the long run. I'm with Katel on this one, you are doing no favours to your child, especially when they get to university and they have to be self disciplined and have to do it all themselves.

Nope... sorry can't agree with this as every child has different needs....I am absolutely certain that without my support my son would not have passed his 11+ and would not have achieved 555 in his KS2 sats. This surely proves that I was not giving a 'false impression' of what my child was achieving but enabling him to reach his potential.
His excellent end of year exam results also prove his achievement.
He has 5 years until he goes to University (if he chooses....at the moment he wants to study robotics & cybernetics) by then , with my support, he will be an independent, self disciplined young man.

sweetpeas · Post by **sweetpeas** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:36 pm

About pushing and homework. We have our life experiences as parents and build our behaviour on them to show the best way to our children. As a child I was pushed to study. My grandmother kept nagging me to do more work and talked about the benefits of education all the time. But I suppose I was bright as well. I was always at the top. I went to the best grammar in our area, and have graduated from three universities. The homework was very important to me, I always thought that school work can never be enough. So I read and read and read at home, asking my parents to get me more books for my birthdays.
I am a parent now. But I decided not to push my children because everybody around is saying that it's not good. However, I always talk about the benefits of education and homework. On the other hand, why would something that was good and beneficial for me be not so good for my children? I still think that you need to push them sometimes to get the best out. You need to lead them. But, at the same time, I am scared to put my children off studies if I push them. So, it is a dilemma.

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:36 pm

OK mum3 It has been a long day and your comment seemed a bit strong!

However, teachers like this really are in the minority these days - schools cannot afford to allow mass underachievement - results are analysed by teaching sets and a good school should 'weed' these teachers out! If this is not happening the school is failing these children -

Bewildered · Post by **Bewildered** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:12 am

mum3 wrote:Unfortunately a lot of grammar schools are simply not interested in motivating 'unmotivated' children (usually boys!). They simply have enough high achieving, hard working (usually girls) children not to have to bother with these children.

I can't see any evidence supporting this statement. If that was the case, why do the majority of GS's achieve 95+% pass rates. In fact the stats suggest otherwise.
If I've missed something here, I'd be very interested to know the source.

mum3 wrote:you are doing no favours to your child, especially when they get to university and they have to be self disciplined and have to do it all themselves.

If parents are guiding children towards becoming independant self learners, from the start, surely they will be exactly that by the time they reach University. Unless you have proof of this being an inaccurate statement. Again I'd be most interested in how you come to this conclusion.

mum3 · Post by **mum3** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:35 am

OK I am prepared to accept it is not 'most' grammar schools and am only speaking of personal experience (but also problem with other peoples children as well in our area). As for the 95% pass rate results, yes that is perfectly true (in our school 100%) but they are not all A*s! Could be a lot of Bs and Cs in there (nothing wrong with that) but my point is some of these children get the A*s by having a lot of outside help (tutors, help with coursework etc) so it is giving a false impression of what is actually going on at the school. It is entirely up to the individual as to whether to give this extra help but it does give a false impression as to the strengths of the schools. However, my children are/were very happy at their grammar schools and had/are having a lovely time and have some great friends....its not all about the results they get, and you could be spoiling their enjoyment by over-doing all the 'extra' help. Depends in the end which you value more....and, by the way, my two older children are at Russell Group universities and finding the work fine (even without their string of A*s!) However, will concede it was a good job they didn't want to be doctors or lawyers (and probably a lot of people on this forum DO want their offspring to be in these professions!)

Melx · Post by **Melx** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:57 pm

I have been reading these posts with interest this morning as just lately my son and I have had a few debates concerning homework. As I said in a previous post I do like to guide my son in order to help him achieve that bit more and I would offer more help if only he would let me but he doesn't. Just yesterday after a further moan from me about why I can't help him more he said he would prefer to just get on with it himself all the time as his grades(his school uses a grading sytem)would then reflect what he could do entirely on his own. He also said that he heard that some exam coursework may be stopped soon because too many parents help too much so if he gets used to doing it on his own now it will benefit him later. I do feel proud of him for being so thoughtful about it but I haveto say I guess I am nervous of letting go. He is a bright boy and to date has done well in his school(year8) but to be honest because I know that at a Grammar school he is now amongst some extremely bright boys I guess I worry he won't achieve as well as he could without that extra push? The other thing is and dear I say this, I do too believe that some parents over do it with the homework help just like the 11+ tuition which is why other parents like me feel under pressure to push our kids in order so that they keep up?

Incidently does anyone else's child go to school where grades are used. Our son gets grades at the end of each term.

Mel

chad · Post by **chad** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:14 pm

My son gets grades at the end of each term (teacher assessment from coursework and class tests - with accompanying 1-5 for atitude, conduct & Homework) - and then at the end of Summer term gets a full report with exam results as well.

All reports also have their 'target level' to be achieved at the end of the year. This is a great help to me as I have found that being assured that he is working towards the level the teacher thinks he is able to produce has let me step back and give him his independence. (Whether that level is a 5 or an 8 )
.....although if the levels started to go backwards then I might question why

perplexed · Post by **perplexed** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:46 pm

My stepson gets grades 6 times a year from his grammar school. It is their own system based on a grade for effort and achievement in every subject, cobbled together into an overall grade.

Interesting thread on pushing. I have not really faced this dilemma myself yet as my children are pre-schoolers! But I do have two stepchildren and I do look at their work sometimes and (comparing their standards to their intelligence, and my teaching experience from the '80s) think they would have benefitted from some "pushing" both at home and at school.

Perhaps the trick at home is maybe not to get involved with homework etc (either by setting extra yourself or directly helping with specific pieces) but to be more subtle. Provide opportunities for play and recreation which the child has some choice about, but which will help the child to become the highly numerate, literate, independent and creative learner we are all aspiring for our children to be.

Any practical ideas out there on how to do this?