Progress 8 ranking list

[streathammum]

This list of schools ranked by achievement in Progress 8 (ie how much improvement did individual children make - reflecting the quality of the teaching more than the quality of the intake) is fascinating.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... le-shakeup

Grammar schools do perform well but don't dominate in the way they do in league tables that only look at exam results.

[Guest55]

You need to look at how 'Progress8' is calculated before interpreting these tables ... like all 'League tables' they are flawed.

[streathammum]

But surely all schools are being assessed using the same criteria? So even if the criteria isn't perfect, you get a general feel for how well a school compares in the area being assessed.

I understand that Progress8 looks at a child's best 8 exam results (double weight for English and Maths) and compares them with the child's expected results to see whether they've done better or worse than expected. I don't know at all how they derive the 'expected' results - I suppose it might be possible to game the list by pretending that children's expected levels were lower than reality, to make their 'progress' look better when their exam results come through. Or it could just be too difficult to come up with exact predictions, so the score becomes less meaningful. Is this what you mean?

I'm no great fan of league tables, but I've always preferred this sort of list (it used to be Value Added I think, before Progress8 came in?) to the one that just looks at raw exam results with no reference to intake.

[Guest55]

It's better than the previous way but that was the same for all schools too ...

'Expected' results are based on KS2 results so children attending poor Primary schools will have deflated 'expectations' and some children have no KS2 results ...

WHat about children who are really ill and take a reduced number of GCSEs - say 5 - their other three results are zero using this methodology.

You can make the same data 'prove' two completely opposite hypotheses if you try hard enough ...

I am no fan of Grammars but I detest ALL League tables because criteria are never totally fair to all.

[salsa]

Very interesting. That's why we have to visit the schools and talk to the teachers, parents and children.

So, if the school has a high intake of children on free school meals, would these children be expected to achieve less?
The same if the children spoke English as a second language?
I know a school which does well in general, anyway, but that has a high intake of children from both above mentioned groups. They're high on this table.

Salsa

[Reading Mum]

taking it with a pinch of salt but it is scary that almost 50% of schools in my area have negative progress 8 scores

[streathammum]

Very interesting. That's why we have to visit the schools and talk to the teachers, parents and children.

So, if the school has a high intake of children on free school meals, would these children be expected to achieve less?
The same if the children spoke English as a second language?
I know a school which does well in general, anyway, but that has a high intake of children from both above mentioned groups. They're high on this table.

Salsa

I don't think that's how it's done, though I stand to be corrected. I think they look at results of Sats in Y6 then look at how those actual children have actually done at GCSE five years later. I don't think it's got anything to do with external factors, except insofar as children with English as a second language would be disadvantaged both in Y6 Sats and at GCSE.

[salsa]

Ok. The children who prepare for grammar or independent schools normally have a higher level of attainment by the end of year 6. Therefore, there wouldn't be a massive improvement reflected on their GCSEs results.

[Tinkers]

Ok. The children who prepare for grammar or independent schools normally have a higher level of attainment by the end of year 6. Therefore, there wouldn't be a massive improvement reflected on their GCSEs results.

However following on From what Reading Mum posted about our local results, the two GSs came first and third. That puts the local results in an even less favourable light.

[streathammum]

Ok. The children who prepare for grammar or independent schools normally have a higher level of attainment by the end of year 6. Therefore, there wouldn't be a massive improvement reflected on their GCSEs results.

Well yes, but they might also have very motivated parents who are willing to invest above average resources in their children's education (time, facilities, tutor support etc). Even if a school does have a high quality intake, I would expect to see the children be stretched.

I do accept, though, that today's data has been presented in terms of above average progress (positive scores) and below average progress (negative scores). By definition, the schools can't all be above average - it may be that even schools with negative ratings are still pushing children further than they did a decade ago, say.