BBC2 11+ documentary

[HamptonDad]

[quote="salsa"]Could you please elaborate?]

A polite 'no'. There is a lot of information out there that you can easily access if you want to. The only thing I would say is that we are not the same and we do have different experiences on a daily basis that impact how we behave and how we are perceived. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous

lol @ tiger parent

[HamptonDad]

My children went to a very ethnically mixed primary school where they seem to see themselves as equals. They may have made their pictures ignoring the skin colour whilst in reception. However, they became aware of race and religion later on when they were in year 5 and were discussing apartheid. The teacher separated the class and made two groups: white and non-white children. He then explained how the non-white group would be treated. After that lesson, one of my son's friends, who was of a mixed white and black heritage, was very distraught and started worrying about something he had not thought about before. The teacher was illustrating a point and full of good intentions, but I wonder if he knew the deep impact it had on this boy.

Salsa

In my opinion, Y5 is too late to 'become aware of race and religion', and far too young to have an Apartheid-style experience foisted on them. I imagine that most of the children - white or otherwise - would have found that upsetting and on the face of it it sounds inappropriate to me. I find it hard to believe though that a 9 year old had never thought about his skin colour before - the little ones I taught were very happy to have theirs recognised as it was at a time when there was a lot of tokenism in reading schemes etc and very few images in school materials which acknowledged difference. I believe that children should be comfortable with their own heritage from an early age, which does not mean 'whiting out' images they either see or create and does mean learning to accept difference without prejudice. I should add that my own children are mixed race, though not visibly so.

THANK YOU!! I question where Salsa is going with this.

[salsa]

My children went to a very ethnically mixed primary school where they seem to see themselves as equals. They may have made their pictures ignoring the skin colour whilst in reception. However, they became aware of race and religion later on when they were in year 5 and were discussing apartheid. The teacher separated the class and made two groups: white and non-white children. He then explained how the non-white group would be treated. After that lesson, one of my son's friends, who was of a mixed white and black heritage, was very distraught and started worrying about something he had not thought about before. The teacher was illustrating a point and full of good intentions, but I wonder if he knew the deep impact it had on this boy.

Salsa

In my opinion, Y5 is too late to 'become aware of race and religion', and far too young to have an Apartheid-style experience foisted on them. I imagine that most of the children - white or otherwise - would have found that upsetting and on the face of it it sounds inappropriate to me. I find it hard to believe though that a 9 year old had never thought about his skin colour before - the little ones I taught were very happy to have theirs recognised as it was at a time when there was a lot of tokenism in reading schemes etc and very few images in school materials which acknowledged difference. I believe that children should be comfortable with their own heritage from an early age, which does not mean 'whiting out' images they either see or create and does mean learning to accept difference without prejudice. I should add that my own children are mixed race, though not visibly so.

THANK YOU!! I question where Salsa is going with this.

Not going anywhere. I was going to respond to Amber's point above, but I fear that this debate about the programme is changing into something else.

Salsa

[mm23292]

People behave in different ways, for different reasons. And there are many forms of favouritism and prejudice in schools, just as there are in the workplace or any where in life. But we can’t beat every nail with the same hammer. If the two children were of same colour, no racial inferences would have been drawn. Or perhaps my experiences as a child, were due to the extent of my ‘blondeness’ in a class of blacks & browns??
It really does get tiresome when this is metred out in situations where there happens to be diversity of colour. People commenting on online discussions regarding Meghan Markle and her life prior to now, have been branded racist. Yet previous royal brides have endured similar scrutiny and press intrusion. It’s a sad world where opinions can’t be aired, or behaviours can’t be modified, without falling foul of something never considered or intended.
Yes this teacher appeared to behave inappropriately in that situation, but to infer that this was motivated by racial prejudice, simply because the girl happened to have a darker skin tone than the boy, is ludicrous.

[RedDevil66]

People behave in different ways, for different reasons. And there are many forms of favouritism and prejudice in schools, just as there are in the workplace or any where in life. But we can’t beat every nail with the same hammer. If the two children were of same colour, no racial inferences would have been drawn. Or perhaps my experiences as a child, were due to the extent of my ‘blondeness’ in a class of blacks & browns??
It really does get tiresome when this is metred out in situations where there happens to be diversity of colour. People commenting on online discussions regarding Meghan Markle and her life prior to now, have been branded racist. Yet previous royal brides have endured similar scrutiny and press intrusion. It’s a sad world where opinions can’t be aired, or behaviours can’t be modified, without falling foul of something never considered or intended.
Yes this teacher appeared to behave inappropriately in that situation, but to infer that this was motivated by racial prejudice, simply because the girl happened to have a darker skin tone than the boy, is ludicrous.

Well, you are entitled to that view. However we can question her motivation behind the needless aggressive tone she took. How can it be ludicrous unless you yourself know the teacher personally?

As to the point of being 'a sad world where opinions can't be aired.' We're doing that aren't we? A perfectly good debate has arisen around the programme which can take many forms. One is that racism does exist in all industries;teaching is no exception. Not accusing the teacher of being a racist but we should acknowledge that it does exist and prevailing attitudes about people of colour have certain 'traits,' have to be addressed. Not all Asians come from a teaching 'hot house,' or have 'tiger' parents;not all children of African and Caribbean backgrounds are all superb athletes but struggle academically, Spanish/Italians aren't all hot tempered,people of colour don't have an attitude problem. I work in a school with a large Traveller community. Many teachers won't come here because of that as they are seen as 'troublemakers,' even though the reality is that the ones getting into trouble are not from that background but can be traced back to a breakdown in the family unit with absentee parents. Are they racist or just bigoted?

[daddyof3]

People behave in different ways, for different reasons. And there are many forms of favouritism and prejudice in schools, just as there are in the workplace or any where in life. But we can’t beat every nail with the same hammer. If the two children were of same colour, no racial inferences would have been drawn. Or perhaps my experiences as a child, were due to the extent of my ‘blondeness’ in a class of blacks & browns??
It really does get tiresome when this is metred out in situations where there happens to be diversity of colour. People commenting on online discussions regarding Meghan Markle and her life prior to now, have been branded racist. Yet previous royal brides have endured similar scrutiny and press intrusion. It’s a sad world where opinions can’t be aired, or behaviours can’t be modified, without falling foul of something never considered or intended.
Yes this teacher appeared to behave inappropriately in that situation, but to infer that this was motivated by racial prejudice, simply because the girl happened to have a darker skin tone than the boy, is ludicrous.

I find the comment above quite niave.

People are entitled to their opinion (many based on their
real experiences).

To actually believe that racism stops outside the school gate is ludicrous.

Are you saying that teachers/ school staff can't be racist? Now this is ludicrous.

[Surferfish]

To actually believe that racism stops outside the school gate is ludicrous.

Are you saying that teachers/ school staff can't be racist? Now this is ludicrous.

I don't think anyone is saying that.

I think what some people are saying (and I kind of agree) is that it is wrong to infer that the teacher was racist simply from watching that episode.

I agree that Chichi was treated unfairly on that occasion, but its possible that could have been due to her having gained a reputation for being difficult, argumentative and disrespectful due to evidence of HER OWN PERSONAL PREVIOUS BEHAVIOUR (which as viewers we haven't witnessed) rather than due to unfair racist stereotypes of black people as a whole.

[mm23292]

People behave in different ways, for different reasons. And there are many forms of favouritism and prejudice in schools, just as there are in the workplace or any where in life. But we can’t beat every nail with the same hammer. If the two children were of same colour, no racial inferences would have been drawn. Or perhaps my experiences as a child, were due to the extent of my ‘blondeness’ in a class of blacks & browns??
It really does get tiresome when this is metred out in situations where there happens to be diversity of colour. People commenting on online discussions regarding Meghan Markle and her life prior to now, have been branded racist. Yet previous royal brides have endured similar scrutiny and press intrusion. It’s a sad world where opinions can’t be aired, or behaviours can’t be modified, without falling foul of something never considered or intended.
Yes this teacher appeared to behave inappropriately in that situation, but to infer that this was motivated by racial prejudice, simply because the girl happened to have a darker skin tone than the boy, is ludicrous.

I find the comment above quite niave.

People are entitled to their opinion (many based on their
real experiences).

To actually believe that racism stops outside the school gate is ludicrous.

Are you saying that teachers/ school staff can't be racist? Now this is ludicrous.

I can’t see anywhere that has suggested racism stops outside the school gates?? Or are we reading different posts? In fact I’ve said the opposite. That prejudice exists in every aspect of our daily life. Both real prejudice and perceived prejudice. And that’s partly the issue here. I’ve encountered a number of people in my career, whereby issues with employment performance have not always been easy to resolve. A small number of employees retaliated with accusations of prejudice based on colour, which were I might add, completely unfounded. They were simply not doing their job. The same person who had equally under performed, did not have the colour card to play. My husbands company has recently resolved a legal case brought by a disgruntled employee, alleging both racial & gender prejudice. The entire company, were gobsmscked by the ridiculous inferences this lady had drawn. And thankfully, the case went nowhere.
Unfortunately, while prejudice does sometimes exist, at other times that prejudice is wrongly perceived. And drawing racial inferences like this, can be mis judged and inflammatory. If that’s naive on my part, then so be it.

[Guest55]

Remember this programme is being made to be controversial; treat it as you would a soap opera.

[daddyof3]

To actually believe that racism stops outside the school gate is ludicrous.

Are you saying that teachers/ school staff can't be racist? Now this is ludicrous.

I don't think anyone is saying that.

I think what some people are saying (and I kind of agree) is that it is wrong to infer that the teacher was racist simply from watching that episode.

I agree that Chichi was treated unfairly on that occasion, but its possible that could have been due to her having gained a reputation for being difficult, argumentative and disrespectful due to evidence of HER OWN PERSONAL PREVIOUS BEHAVIOUR (which as viewers we haven't witnessed) rather than due to unfair racist stereotypes of black people as a whole.

Yes Chi Chi could have been treated unfairly because of her behaviour/reputation however it COULD also be because of her colour-this is also a possibility that cannot be dismissed.