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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
Posts: 5227
Actually, not everyone whose children pass the test support the system. Some hate the system. And I’m sure that some people whose children “fail” the test still support the system. It’s not black and white in a world where some people recognise inequalities for some children in education from birth.

I will be interested to see what conclusions the program/series come to - I suspect most who choose to watch will hear what they want to hear from it, to support their point of view.

Cross post with anotherdad


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 12:54 pm
Posts: 21
OK point taken
Not a clear divide, not absolute causality, but a strong sense of opinion from people with children who passed and whose didn't.
Reminded me of this piece of YouGov survey, for whatever it's worth, showing that some people who oppose the system would still send children to grammar schools if they passed the test.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/15/tw ... grammar-s/
At the end of the day we should just do what is best for our own children within our ability and turn a deaf ear to the media, the government, the researchers, social mobility campaigners etc.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:47 pm
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I think Joanita was expected to gain the 214. I think they chose 2 who’d fail and 2 who’d pass. I think that low mark was a surprise. I bet the school had her down as a safe pass.
I felt for her though. It all seems so unfair. The ethnic diversity in the Grammar was pronounced compared to the predominant white working class background in Erith. I imagine the producers won’t touch that though.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
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sandy09 wrote:
At the end of the day we should just do what is best for our own children within our ability and turn a deaf ear to the media, the government, the researchers, social mobility campaigners etc.

I disagree. It's that look-after-my-own-interests approach that has led to the fragmented and selfish society we are developing. There is an overlap in the Venn diagram of self and society, as more advanced countries are demonstrating.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
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Beautifully put, anotherdad, and in my opinion undeniable.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
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Thank you.

This cartoon is a few years old now, but it's a lovely illustration of the illusion of equality of opportunity and a riposte to those who trot out the "social mobility" argument for selective education as its most important feature.

http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 12:54 pm
Posts: 21
thanks for enlightening me
As I said I'm still on a self discovering journey to find out if GS is right for my child and right for us so your advice is greatly appreciated.
I simply cannot see how I could help society with the education of children other than my own. Even for the people responsible for other children's education (teachers, politicians) I see nothing wrong in themselves choosing the best education for their own children
even if that education is not available to everyone.
Every child is unique, so they should get the best opportunity available to them, right? As for society, well everyone seems to say a bright child will do well wherever they go, don't they? With grammar schools or no grammar schools the UK education system doesnt change much, does it?


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:24 pm 
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I found it quite an eye opener. I'm very anti a wholly selective system like Kent and Bexley and much prefer our system here in Essex. However I hate the 11+ tourism this then brings into the county and being in Colchester hate hearing of girls in my daughter's class schlepping in from the London borders and falling asleep in class! There has to be a middle ground somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
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sandy09 wrote:
thanks for enlightening me
As I said I'm still on a self discovering journey to find out if GS is right for my child and right for us so your advice is greatly appreciated.
I simply cannot see how I could help society with the education of children other than my own. Even for the people responsible for other children's education (teachers, politicians) I see nothing wrong in themselves choosing the best education for their own children
even if that education is not available to everyone.
Every child is unique, so they should get the best opportunity available to them, right? As for society, well everyone seems to say a bright child will do well wherever they go, don't they? With grammar schools or no grammar schools the UK education system doesnt change much, does it?

There's a lot you can do - we can all do - to help society with education of children. Have you considered being a school or college governor, a trustee of an education charity, a PTA member, youth leader, scout leader, Young Enterprise adviser, etc, etc? Good, curious parents like you can offer so much to the education of other children and trust me, you learn a lot about education in the process! If we reluctantly accept that some children are destined to years of difficult schooling, the best we can do is to contribute around formal education to ensure they grow up able to make good lives for themselves and contribute to society. If we don't, we all end up paying for the consequences of those left behind by what is an underfunded and neglected education system and tricky societal situations.

You're right that all parents should want the best for their children but I think it's important that alongside that we each play a small part to make sure that those without access to good opportunity get a leg up where they can. I don't think it's a coincidence that among the regular posters on here we have parents with children at or finished with good schools but who are fulfilling the sorts of roles I listed above because they recognise that their children had choices and opportunities that not everyone else's have. It also makes them well placed to offer advice to those parents for whom grammar schools are the be-and-end-all.


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 Post subject: Re: BBC2 11+ documentary
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 12:54 pm
Posts: 21
Thanks anotherdad

I did try to volunteer as a school governor at my child's school but did not succeed at the ballot stage. I take it that I'm hardly at the school gate to meet other parents. You're right I'm very curious about education, having been educated in three different countries (school, university, postgraduate) and I've been perplexed about the way education in this country reflects the class system that has been around for centuries. And yet everything about education has to be so politically correct. Why nobody questions private schooling of all members the Royal family and/or families of the House of Lords but any high flying ministers with children at private schools will be put under spotlight??
Does that need to be changed? Does anybody care? If they care, they still put their children into the school of their choice reflecting their class and do something else to help society, is that right?

I've been reading all advice on this site with a great amount of gratitude for the long serving members who have long passed this agonizing phase yet still generously offering advice to people finding their feet on the journey. I hope once I get to the other side I can offer some back to people who will find themselves in the situation I'm in today.


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