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 Post subject: Change to Entrance Exam
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Our local SS grammar has changed it’s entrance exam policy for 2020 admission. DC1 sat for admission in September 2019 and gained a place and DC2 will sit for 2020 admission. The tests were formerly NVR, English and Maths and the overall score was a maximum of 450. The decision has been made to scrap the NVR element and only score up to 300 with the Maths and English elements.
Is this a good thing?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:15 pm 
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Presumably it will suit some, and not others. The scores are (presumably) standardised so it doesn't really matter what the overall score is, it is how they compare to the others. Have they said why theycsre changing it?
Roughly where in the country are you? I can move your post to the relevant area as you might get more replies there, if you would like me to.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:31 pm 
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NVR tends to favour Mathematicians, so by ditching it, I suspect the school is looking to improve English levels in Y7. English becomes more important at GCSEs as it forms the basis of all the essay writing subjects. Arguably, Maths can be cram taught for the test more easily than English vocab which is generally assimilated over time.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:11 pm 
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This is the Blue Coat school, Liverpool, so doesn’t have an area other than putting it in the Wirral section.
I’m not convinced by the reasons given on the schools website and suspect it’s rather to do with cost (the NVR paper is compiled by an outside agency) the English and Maths are in-house.
Luckily I checked the admissions policy today as I started DC2 on some NVR last night. I’m not sure how I feel about it really as the format as it was worked for DC1 in September and DC2 seemed to have an aptitude for it. Equal weight was given to each paper and in the event of a tie the NVR score would be the decider.
I feel that this could disadvantage some students for whom English isn’t their first language.
Feel free to move to any section you see fit.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:04 pm 
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They used to have NVR in Sutton area years ago. We had to do it with DC1, and I am glad this one was not needed with the others.

In my humble opinion, no useful skills in that test except learning to do the puzzles quickly under pressure. This is one exam that does not determine how well children will do at school later on. Much more sensible to be assessed in English and Maths.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:56 pm 
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I thought it was meant to indicate a general level of intelligence rather than a test that can be more easily coached for. There must be reasons that they do these tests, Maths and English are staples everywhere and other schools also do NVR, VR or both, in addition.
From some of the posts I’ve read it seems as if the amount of tests kids have to sit is increasing rather than decreasing. Perhaps this is the way forward. After all there are no GCSE’s in NVR or VR.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:42 pm 
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Yes, NVR is a test that to a certain extent "ignores" language differentials (ie generally those who do not have English as a first language are not overly disadvantaged) and tests innate general intelligence - but does have a slight mathematical bias - some schools used to score their test equally NVR/VR/Numeracy but more and more are now scoring it 50% Verbal and 50% Numeracy/NVR to remove the mathematical bias.

NVR is one of those tests where I have seen children who are believed to be "very clever" at school, struggle, because they have to think for themselves rather than being taught waht to do/say.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Jonnyfingers wrote:
I thought it was meant to indicate a general level of intelligence rather than a test that can be more easily coached for. There must be reasons that they do these tests, Maths and English are staples everywhere and other schools also do NVR, VR or both, in addition.
From some of the posts I’ve read it seems as if the amount of tests kids have to sit is increasing rather than decreasing. Perhaps this is the way forward. After all there are no GCSE’s in NVR or VR.


Oh, you certainly can coach for NVR. My point is that it does not help your child to study later on in any way.

The primary purpose of all those tests is to select one in 10 (or whatever the ratio of applications per pace is in any given year/school) in some way that seems to be fair enough and is difficult to appeal against.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:18 pm 
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kenyancowgirl wrote:
Yes, NVR is a test that to a certain extent "ignores" language differentials (ie generally those who do not have English as a first language are not overly disadvantaged) and tests innate general intelligence - but does have a slight mathematical bias - some schools used to score their test equally NVR/VR/Numeracy but more and more are now scoring it 50% Verbal and 50% Numeracy/NVR to remove the mathematical bias.

NVR is one of those tests where I have seen children who are believed to be "very clever" at school, struggle, because they have to think for themselves rather than being taught waht to do/say.


Yup - it's that pesky word 'Reasoning' in the name, isn't it? Working it out... Like in Verbal Reasoning', only that one has been more or less scuppered as a test of ability to think on one's feet (but hence the anguish when a test provider has the temerity to include types that they hadn't ever seen before :shock: ).

That is (or at least was) the idea behind using VR and NVR, I believe? - to try to pick out those who can cope best with assimilating new material, i.e. will be 'quick to learn', instead of needing every new concept explained over and over again. Not to see how well one is going to do in a non-existent GCSE NVR.

_________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:41 pm 
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Why are schools so against children being “coached” to pass the 11 plus? Surely children are coached to pass their GCSE’s in the same way, albeit by the school rather than by the parents. Isn’t it the schools aim to have as many children pass their exams with as high a grade as possible?
When I was a child I was very good at NVR type tests and Mensa IQ tests but left school with precisely no O’ levels or any formal qualifications at all.
I never took the 11 plus btw.


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