How true is it? Your opinion is welcome....

[hermanmunster]

Hi

If you think of and compare the normal distribution curve of intelligence for children at state and private schools (and I suspect state schools in affluent areas against less affluent areas) you will find that the means are in different places, it doesn;t mean to say that ALL the children are cleverer only that the mean is higher. There will be the outlying 2.5% at each end of the curve in all case.

[mattsurf]

Hi

If you think of and compare the normal distribution curve of intelligence for children at state and private schools (and I suspect state schools in affluent areas against less affluent areas) you will find that the means are in different places, it doesn;t mean to say that ALL the children are cleverer only that the mean is higher. There will be the outlying 2.5% at each end of the curve in all case.

My Kids go to a state school in an affluent area - the school catchment area is rarely more than 400m - almost all of the houses cost £300k upwards. In my opinion the school is terrible, however, the SATS results are excellent - this is down to parents who are probably slightly above average intelligence and have better education who encourage their kids, read more books and pay for tutors - this covers up for deficiencies in the school

[hermanmunster]

Hi

If you think of and compare the normal distribution curve of intelligence for children at state and private schools (and I suspect state schools in affluent areas against less affluent areas) you will find that the means are in different places, it doesn;t mean to say that ALL the children are cleverer only that the mean is higher. There will be the outlying 2.5% at each end of the curve in all case.

My Kids go to a state school in an affluent area - the school catchment area is rarely more than 400m - almost all of the houses cost £300k upwards. In my opinion the school is terrible, however, the SATS results are excellent - this is down to parents who are probably slightly above average intelligence and have better education who encourage their kids, read more books and pay for tutors - this covers up for deficiencies in the school

Exactly - as I heard recently - all SATS results show at primary level is where the better off families live

[magwich]

We now have one DD at Grammar school and one who has just passed 2 different 11+ exams. Both started out at state primaries because we do not have endless funds. The eldest lasted 4 years at 5 different primaries in oxfordshire, gloucestershire and northumberland but in the end our nerves could not take much more! The cost of the chardonnay each evening whilst we debated the appalling teaching, her lazy and foul-mouthed fellow pupils(not all of them obviously but enough to upset and distract her), the little 8 year old fiend who pushed her over in the playground and pretended to have sex with her,the hatred of anyone who wanted to go in for the 11+,was reaching the stage where school fees did not seem so impossible (and better for our livers!!).
The eldest then went to a highly selective girls prep. in Newcastle for 2 years where every girl was more than capable of passing the 11+ and never looked back. Total cost of 11k back in 2004.
Second DD has tried out 4 state primaries and we have been through the same descent into near-alcoholism!
She has now been at a midlands non selective mixed prep and has also not looked back. 15 out of 19 in her class have passed the local 11+ including several whose results were, to put it politely, something of a surprise!
She has not felt pressured and all her friends enjoy the school. Total cost 11k.

[hermanmunster]

11k for the prevention of alcoholism ... cheap at the price!!

[mattsurf]

We now have one DD at Grammar school and one who has just passed 2 different 11+ exams. Both started out at state primaries because we do not have endless funds. The eldest lasted 4 years at 5 different primaries in oxfordshire, gloucestershire and northumberland but in the end our nerves could not take much more! The cost of the chardonnay each evening whilst we debated the appalling teaching, her lazy and foul-mouthed fellow pupils(not all of them obviously but enough to upset and distract her), the little 8 year old fiend who pushed her over in the playground and pretended to have gender with her,the hatred of anyone who wanted to go in for the 11+,was reaching the stage where school fees did not seem so impossible (and better for our livers!!).
The eldest then went to a highly selective girls prep. in Newcastle for 2 years where every girl was more than capable of passing the 11+ and never looked back. Total cost of 11k back in 2004.
Second DD has tried out 4 state primaries and we have been through the same descent into near-alcoholism!
She has now been at a midlands non selective mixed prep and has also not looked back. 15 out of 19 in her class have passed the local 11+ including several whose results were, to put it politely, something of a surprise!
She has not felt pressured and all her friends enjoy the school. Total cost 11k.

Please PM me with the name of the midlands non selective Prep

[katel]

I was talking to the head of year 7 at my dd's grammar sschool at a party last weekend (don't I move in exalted circles!) and asked her about the private/state divide. She said - and I found this very interesting - that there is a big difference. The private school children generally have much more factual knowledge, and they are also usually better at essay writing - getting their thoughts down on paper in a coherent form. They also often have better manners! However, she felt that (again generally) state school children livlier and better at expressing their opinions verbally. They are also usually better at research - finding stuff out for themselves. She said that in her opinion private school children are taught too much (for which I read are spoon fed)and state school children not enough (they are told to go and find out about something for themselves but are often not given the necessary tools to do the job)

She also said that it all evens out by the end of year7/middle of year 8. The private school children are freed up a bit, and the state school children learn a bit of intellectual rigour!

[essex-mum18]

I was talking to the head of year 7 at my dd's grammar sschool at a party last weekend (don't I move in exalted circles!) and asked her about the private/state divide. She said - and I found this very interesting - that there is a big difference. The private school children generally have much more factual knowledge, and they are also usually better at essay writing - getting their thoughts down on paper in a coherent form. They also often have better manners! However, she felt that (again generally) state school children livlier and better at expressing their opinions verbally. They are also usually better at research - finding stuff out for themselves. She said that in her opinion private school children are taught too much (for which I read are spoon fed)and state school children not enough (they are told to go and find out about something for themselves but are often not given the necessary tools to do the job)

She also said that it all evens out by the end of year7/middle of year 8. The private school children are freed up a bit, and the state school children learn a bit of intellectual rigour!

Katel

Thank you for your input and it is very interesting to know the differences especially the informations were given by a GS teacher.

[Guest55]

Around here the state schools pupils are miles ahead of the private schools ones! The children from local private schools are far too 'spoon-fed' and find it very hard to adjust to thinking things through - this might be more a function of the quality of local Prep schools -

[bucks mum1]

In our state primary, the year 6 are very bright and 18 out of a class of 29 passed the 11+. I had to laugh when I heard one 'rival' mother saying that children at the local fee-paying prep school had done very well with 70% passing and all had passed with exceptionally high scores! Evidently the magic 121 is not enough for some.

A friend who teaches in a local grammar agrees with Guest 55's belief that children from state schools easily hold their own when compared with private school children and often have not been as heavily coached to get through the 11+.