BBC Radio 4 Programme
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Charlotte67
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I was trying...
Charlotte67 wrote:Did anyone see the small piece on 'Breakfast' this morning? It implied (to me at least!) that tonight's programme will be more fact based than last week's personal stories.
They mentioned a survey of '500 parents'. I wonder how many responded? Will the fact that the survey was on-line have skewed the results in favour of the middle classes? Presumably those children who got to GS with no help of their parents are unlikely to be represented in the survey? (As the parents won't have bothered/been able to participate?)
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rachelmary
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Before I attended teacher training college I spent a year in a private prep school helping in Reception Class. I was amazed to find that some of the teachers were not qualified in this country but had some qualifications gained abroad. The facilities were not good and the equipment old and out of date (they were reading Janet and John books!!!) They did however have very small classes which is all I can say was good there.
After qualifiying I taught in another prep school where they did not even have a copy of the national curriculum and the teachers had no contracts. AS an NQT I had NO support and I did not stay there long.
My children attend the local primary schools which are wonderful with fantastic equipment and good, dedicated teachers. My experiences of the two private schools put me off for life, what a waste of money. I am sure there are also very good ones out there but how can parents tell?
After qualifiying I taught in another prep school where they did not even have a copy of the national curriculum and the teachers had no contracts. AS an NQT I had NO support and I did not stay there long.
My children attend the local primary schools which are wonderful with fantastic equipment and good, dedicated teachers. My experiences of the two private schools put me off for life, what a waste of money. I am sure there are also very good ones out there but how can parents tell?
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T.i.p.s.y
I have to say something. Often I type things which are too general, and I acknowledge that. So I made sure I chose my words carefully when discussing my experience. After all Rob did ask for our experiences so they then should not be criticised or deemed as ridiculous. The schools I chose for my sons were usually very selective which is why they were probably working around, on average, 18 months ahead. At these schools the kids were already past GCSE level by the time they sat common entrance. These comments do not belittle state schools or independent schools that don't work 18 months ahead. Please would posters stop seizing snippets of what I type and construing it as a form of criticism. 
My sons went to independent prep (which is well regarded locally) before going to grammar school. I found they had covered a lot more science, history, geography, french and latin(!) than their state school peers.
They were in the top sets for maths and the school generally prided themselves on being a year ahead of the national curriculum aiming for scholarship exams in year 8. However I would say that the maths was so rushed and accelerated that many topics were really glossed over and not understood. I was really pleased that we studied maths together for the 11+ as I now know that they all got the basics. There were woeful gaps in long multiplication, division etc.
With regards to English again they were very behind and had almost never done a story at home. This was the area which needed the most work for the 11+.
Although the boys were ahead in the non-core subjects it is all covered again at secondary school and I think they would have benefited more from more attention to maths and english. Some of the teaching I felt was inappropriate for boys of their age.
Those boys who stayed on for common entrance were typically at about AS level in some subjects once doing their scholarship exams but had been flogged in their last year at prep and many of them were needing external coaching for the exams.
My sons left their prep school confident, articulate and with good general knowledge, but I am not sure they would have been terribly different if they had had a good local primary to go to (unfortunately not an option).
We are so lucky to be blessed with them all now at a fantastic grammar school. I agree that it would be great to be able to let all academic children no matter what their background have this opportunity, that would require county wide grammar schools like Bucks and Kent, not the 3 that we have with 10 applicants for every place and clearly a good alternative for those not going down grammar route-there would not be this pressure on places if all secondary schools were good. It would need a radical change in political thinking.
This radio programme is going to make me cross as somehow I think it is going to imply that people like us shouldn't be allowed to use grammar schools as we could afford to pay. Yet we have paid already, paid for tutoring to access the system and paid for independent school until this stage which required a lot of sacrifices and less time at home than I would have liked. I do hope they touch on the choices that parents make when they do this as there was no mention of sacrifice and choices on the questionnaire I filled in.
Rant over.
They were in the top sets for maths and the school generally prided themselves on being a year ahead of the national curriculum aiming for scholarship exams in year 8. However I would say that the maths was so rushed and accelerated that many topics were really glossed over and not understood. I was really pleased that we studied maths together for the 11+ as I now know that they all got the basics. There were woeful gaps in long multiplication, division etc.
With regards to English again they were very behind and had almost never done a story at home. This was the area which needed the most work for the 11+.
Although the boys were ahead in the non-core subjects it is all covered again at secondary school and I think they would have benefited more from more attention to maths and english. Some of the teaching I felt was inappropriate for boys of their age.
Those boys who stayed on for common entrance were typically at about AS level in some subjects once doing their scholarship exams but had been flogged in their last year at prep and many of them were needing external coaching for the exams.
My sons left their prep school confident, articulate and with good general knowledge, but I am not sure they would have been terribly different if they had had a good local primary to go to (unfortunately not an option).
We are so lucky to be blessed with them all now at a fantastic grammar school. I agree that it would be great to be able to let all academic children no matter what their background have this opportunity, that would require county wide grammar schools like Bucks and Kent, not the 3 that we have with 10 applicants for every place and clearly a good alternative for those not going down grammar route-there would not be this pressure on places if all secondary schools were good. It would need a radical change in political thinking.
This radio programme is going to make me cross as somehow I think it is going to imply that people like us shouldn't be allowed to use grammar schools as we could afford to pay. Yet we have paid already, paid for tutoring to access the system and paid for independent school until this stage which required a lot of sacrifices and less time at home than I would have liked. I do hope they touch on the choices that parents make when they do this as there was no mention of sacrifice and choices on the questionnaire I filled in.
Rant over.
Another feeble attempt to drag the thread back on topic:
Found this about the program while looking for something else:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7788039.stm
Key quote:
"Educational psychologist Professor Brendan Bunting has shown that children who are coached for nine months or more improve their scores at 11+ by up to 40%."
Which probably confirms what most of us here already instinctively knew: parents who, whether from principle or optimism, enter their children for 11+ without tuition may be doing them a great disservice.
Mike
Found this about the program while looking for something else:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7788039.stm
Key quote:
"Educational psychologist Professor Brendan Bunting has shown that children who are coached for nine months or more improve their scores at 11+ by up to 40%."
Which probably confirms what most of us here already instinctively knew: parents who, whether from principle or optimism, enter their children for 11+ without tuition may be doing them a great disservice.
Mike
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Sally-Anne
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- Location: Buckinghamshire
Charlotte, I will add my experience to Tipsy's here.
There are 3 Prep schools that I know a fair bit about (one of them being DS2's school) and two of them are teaching well ahead of the NC by Year 6 - at least a year ahead in every case. The 3rd is teaching to around 6 months ahead of the NC.
This difference is already clear in year 3, where the children are at least 2 terms ahead of the NC and the gap widens even more by Year 6.
I don't necessarily perceive it to be a good thing though. When the children move on to Grammar Schools (given that the Preps in Bucks really are GS feeder schools to a fairly large extent) the children are very bored indeed in Year 7, because they have done all of the work before.
Even now, in year 9 of a GS, DS1 is repeating some work that he did in Year 7 at his Prep, particularly in History and Geography, but also Maths.
There are 3 Prep schools that I know a fair bit about (one of them being DS2's school) and two of them are teaching well ahead of the NC by Year 6 - at least a year ahead in every case. The 3rd is teaching to around 6 months ahead of the NC.
This difference is already clear in year 3, where the children are at least 2 terms ahead of the NC and the gap widens even more by Year 6.
I don't necessarily perceive it to be a good thing though. When the children move on to Grammar Schools (given that the Preps in Bucks really are GS feeder schools to a fairly large extent) the children are very bored indeed in Year 7, because they have done all of the work before.
Even now, in year 9 of a GS, DS1 is repeating some work that he did in Year 7 at his Prep, particularly in History and Geography, but also Maths.
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Loopyloulou
- Posts: 878
- Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:20 pm
What a successful thread this is, whether directly on topic or just somewhere thereabouts!
Rachelmary said:
(I'm sure we'll be right back on topic by 9pm tonight...)
Rachelmary said:
HOORAY !!!After qualifiying I taught in another prep school where they did not even have a copy of the national curriculum
What a pity it is that only indies have teachers whose outlook on life is not coloured by indoctrination at teacher training colleges. Some of the best teachwers in indies have never been there, and it is such a pity that red tape denies them to the state system, if for nothing else then at least to acheive balance and variety. Rachelmary, your emphasis on the importance of a teacher's contract, I fear, rather illustrates my point...some of the teachers were not qualified
(I'm sure we'll be right back on topic by 9pm tonight...)
Loopy
