Grammar school GCSE results results

[Advice2018]

Thick as a brick I never said that- I said parents who take an interest in their children!! This can be parents from any educational sector. This particular thread is comparing private and grammar results.
Every single person on a forum has a right to their opinions- don’t criticise the language someone uses by saying they use the word think too much.
I am not on here to get into arguments about people but am looking for a safe anonymous way to air my queries.
If you disagree with someone do it in a nice way don’t condescend them.

[bluesea]

Thanks thickasabrick for supporting me. Advice2018 you misquoted me there. I am not being condescending. I'm asking you not to stereotype private school parents. As I said, I do not stereotype either state school or private school parents. I have used both types of school. Everyone is different. I can tell from your other posts on other threads that you are looking at a state grammar for your child and comparing it to (perhaps also looking at) a local private school. You need to visit the schools to see if they feel right for your child. Also, do not be fooled by Ofsted outstanding awards. If despite an outstanding Ofsted says its science subjects need looking at then take that seriously and ask important questions of the management. I was a parent at the schools you're looking at and if you want your child to go all the way through to end of sixth form then ask why the science a level grades are dropping year on year. You have every right to as a prospective parent.

[bridge]

I'd say the difference in Grammar School results is mainly to do with the environment and then parental involvement and finally the calibre of the students. There are good and bad teachers in all schools but what you don't get (at least according to my daughter at Tiffin) is any pupil disruption. Her friends, who are at the local non selective school, complain about the disruption in class.

A good way to understand this is to watch "Trading Places" - an old film but if I remember correctly sums it up nicely.

[Advice2018]

Blue sea I think it’s you who has misquoted me but as I said I’m not on here to get into arguments.
The local selective school you mention has had problems with A levels and has numerous changes of head over the years however, it now has a permanent head who by all accounts is a popular, hardworking and determined character who was himself previously a science teacher at the school. I can see the school had recent adverts on their twitter account for maths and science teachers and as a science teacher himself he will know exactly what to look for. I can also see from their website that they have a new parent governor who’s daughter is in year 7 and it will be in her best interest to make sure the
School succeds at both GCSE and A level. I’ve asked on this forum if anyone has anything negative to say about the local grammar but it has been overwhelmingly positive. I very much believe in the saying never judge a book by its cover.
Bridge I havnt seen trading places but will make sure I watch it!
I do think you have to take all league tables with a pinch of salt and the very good advice that I have been given on this site is there is no school that fits all and you have to find the best fit for your child.

[bluesea]

Sorry to be a bore by replying, but you were slagging off private school parents. I was just standing up for them (and me!). Now have a look at your last post and think carefully about what you said.

You acknowledge the problems with a levels and the many changes of headteacher.

Yes, the current was previous Head of Science brought in to bring up standards in those subjects (I know my DD was there at the time). Question, did this happen?

Ofsted Monitoring Visit (not a full inspection) says: Outstanding status still stands from 2014 full inspection.

It also says: Priorities for future improvement.

Leaders and those responsible for governance should ensure that:
a) a streamlined system is in place for recording and checking pastoral matters and,

Leaders and those responsible for governance should ensure that:
b) the teaching of a level science and mathematics routinely provides stretch and challenge to ensure that all students make the progress of which they are capable.

Have another look at the a level results in sciences. What grades would your DD need if they wanted to take medicine?

New governor. Well, what can I say. The last two parent governors unusually resigned at the same time one summer a few years ago. The board didn't invite any parents to join them for years, despite requests from good candidates. Let's hope this new governor is outspoken because they will need to dilute the old guard who have been there a very long time. They were, in my day, particularly bad at communicating with parents and would not listen. In fact we were ignored frequently. Apart from on social media where one of them posted anonymously - classy.

You say "I very much believe in the saying never judge a book by its cover." Boy oh boy are you correct there. Be sure to lift the cover and ask a lot of questions. Your first question could be:

How much top slice has the academy trust taken off the money raised by their PET scheme? Parents pay £50 per month. It's mentioned in their minutes.

Yes, there are lots of positives but I'm just pointing out some areas which you might like to consider and possibly ask questions on. You are a prospective parent, you are entitled to ask questions. Again, as you say, never judge a book by its cover.

Good luck.

[Advice2018]

Bluesea I completely disagree with you about what I said but I’m not going there so let’s move forward!
A level results have dropped, GCSE results in my opinion are outstanding. A lot of children now a days do move for A level and choose schools that support their chosen career and have departments that are strong for the A levels they want be they in the sciences or arts.
Thanks for providing a view of some of the negatives too though as it’s important to know those too in order to make a informed choice.
At the end of the day no school is perfect and everything in life is about balancing pros and cons.
Overall I think there are a lot of positives and as I said previously it comes down to individual choice about the fit of a school.
You said you have experienced both grammar and private sector- how did you find they compared?

[bluesea]

How do they compare? Well, in my experience the private schools showed all their GCSE results, unlike NW, the school you say has excellent GCSE results.

I know a pupil at NW who got very low grades in 2018 GCSEs. Have a look at their GCSE results page, many low grades, ie., 4, 3, 2, 1 and U are not shown. At first glance at the sheet one assumes every pupil scored grade 5 or above, which is odd as I know this girl did not score all 5+ in her GCSEs. So I did some simple calculations. There are grades missing from the sheet and yet the total of all students who took each subject exam are shown. For example, English Lang shows 158 took the exam, but the total under each grade adds up to 156. Same with Eng Lit, shows 158 but columns only add up to 156. They have cut the columns at grade 5 to make the overall results look better. Our private schools never did that, even the few students with poor grades each year were shown.

Back to the NW results. Maths total is 157 not 158 as shown. Biology is 140, not 144. Chemistry is 142, not 144. Physics is 142, not 144. Art is 32, not 37 (so five pupils' results in Art of grade 4 or lower are not shown - that's 13.5% of art grades not shown on the sheet). Computer Sci is 53, not 59 (10% of grades not shown), German is 31, not 33, Religious studies is 153, not 157, Spanish is 64, not 65.

Compared to the average state school their GCSE grades are good. However, they are not an average school, the incoming year 7s are well above average ability. But the fact they hide the poorer grades means they are hyper-sensitive about them. I checked some other grammar schools in their locale. They all show all grades achieved in 2018 from grade 9 down to U. St Olave's shows all, with 1x U, 1x grade 2, 2x grade 3 and x14 grade 4s last year.

Why are NW trying to hide their lower grades? The overall total box for grades 9 - 5 shows 1513 exams taken, but add up the numbers and the total is really 1482. Why are they choosing not to show 31 grade scores?

I was told their year 11 was full, with 160 pupils. So why the number 158 for the core subjects? Are there two pupils completely missing from the results page?

Lower grade scores in grammar schools could be for many reasons, sickness, family difficulties, simple lack of interest in the subject, poor teaching, no revision, mistakes made in the exam paper. It's part of life and they should be shown. The fact they are hidden leaves me to believe the school has not changed the policies that were alive and kicking when I was a parent there. Smoke and mirrors.

[PettswoodFiona]

They do have the lower grades but on page 3 meaning it is n typical NW style and you don’t know whether it is bad admin or trying to push the data to a he bottom https://www.newsteadwood.co.uk/portals/ ... 202018.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bluesea]

Ah, PwF, you are correct. Thanks for being on the ball, as usual. They are on a later page. There are 29 lower grades. Not quite the number I calculated (31) but they are there. Checked four other grammars this morning including StOs* and they print all the results in one table on one page. Odd NW put only grade 5 and up on the main page. As I said before, smoke and mirrors.

* Interestingly StOs has many more lower grades in 2018 GCSE than they did in 2017 GCSE and we probably all know the reason. It's good though, it's real life. Our school children have enough to worry about, reformed subjects are tougher, they don't need the extra pressure exerted by schools due to league tables. Let's do away with league tables!

[thickasabrick]

Let's do away with league tables!

They certainly need to be made more difficult to manipulate.

I would start with counting 'disappeared students' as U for each subject.