Apprenticeship v university

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solimum
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 3:09 pm
Location: Solihull, West Midlands

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by solimum »

kenyancowgirl wrote:The JLR apprenticeship scheme is another one that is gold standard, and always has been...possibly platinum, actually....
As JLR is basically the economic engine keeping Solihull going we can't really complain....
Rugbymumto2
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:49 am

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by Rugbymumto2 »

kenyancowgirl wrote:The JLR apprenticeship scheme is another one that is gold standard, and always has been...possibly platinum, actually....
My DS in Y4 has been telling me this is what he wants to do for the last couple of years, I can't remember ever discussing apprenticeships with him! It is a route I an very happy for him to aspire to.
lefol
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:13 pm
Location: Bexleyheath

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by lefol »

D’s quote keen on doing an apprenticeship in law. Ten years ago I would have probably frowned and said why ? I actually do support him doing an apprenticeship as it means he will have a job at the end of it and be debt free . I am not persuaded that a university degree is the means to the end these days .
CampNou
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 2:13 pm

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by CampNou »

I am not sure about 2 year programmes run by PWC but all standard and competitive programmes are Chartered Accountancy focused with 4 years or 6 years programmes. At the end of the day you will gain ACA (http://www.icaew.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), ACCA(http://www.accaglobal.com/uk/en.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) or CIMA(http://www.cimaglobal.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) qualification with 4-6 years work experience in Audit, Consultancy, Advisory or IT areas. No university can offer charted status. If you want to be a Chartered Accountant, you have to go through the professional exams and importantly the work experience (specially for ACA need 450hrs of work experience). Most of the graduates join accountancy firms as trainees after completing the degree so they get some exam exceptions if they have done related subjects in Uni.

Joining an Accountancy firm just after A/L is the fast track to be a Chartered Accountant. Once you become a Chartered Accountant, opportunities are enormous and pay average will be above 45k (just after qualification). London is one of the biggest financial services provider in the world so our kids have a great opportunity at our door step.

I did only focus Financial services in this post. There are large number of other organisation on different industries provide verity of opportunities for School leavers like Engineering, Retail, Pharmaceutical etc
JaneEyre
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by JaneEyre »

A link on the topic 'Apprenticeship vs university'
https://university.which.co.uk/advice/c ... but-should" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yamin151
Posts: 2405
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:30 am

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by Yamin151 »

lefol wrote:D’s quote keen on doing an apprenticeship in law. Ten years ago I would have probably frowned and said why ? I actually do support him doing an apprenticeship as it means he will have a job at the end of it and be debt free . I am not persuaded that a university degree is the means to the end these days .
I agree and think this is an area that will grow and grow over the next few years. I am hopeful that our offspring might actually be at the cusp of this taking off, and not be 'behind' for once (i.e. just as degrees become more expensive, less valuable, overly competitive) and be in established careers before apprenticeships become less valuable in the bulk of offers (just like uni degrees did pre-student loan - every dog has its day)
Surferfish
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by Surferfish »

This is an interesting discussion and has certainly made me think of apprenticeships in a different (more positive) way and in some cases like the JLR example I can see that it might be a preferable alternative.

What about generally though. What do people feel is the primary purpose of going to university? Is it merely to gain training and qualifications to enable someone to do a particular job? I know for some people that is a big part of it, particularly for vocational courses, but isn't there also more to it than that? In my day, the actual course being studied for many people was probably secondary to the whole wider experience of living away from home, meeting a range of people, widening your overall outlook and the whole social side of it, which you may not get from an apprenticeship.

Of course in those days there were no fees and many people got a grant so perhaps university was a more acceptable luxury than it is today when people are looking for a measurable 'return on their investment', which in some ways I find rather sad. :(
Yamin151
Posts: 2405
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:30 am

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by Yamin151 »

Surferfish wrote:This is an interesting discussion and has certainly made me think of apprenticeships in a different (more positive) way and in some cases like the JLR example I can see that it might be a preferable alternative.

What about generally though. What do people feel is the primary purpose of going to university? Is it merely to gain training and qualifications to enable someone to do a particular job? I know for some people that is a big part of it, particularly for vocational courses, but isn't there also more to it than that? In my day, the actual course being studied for many people was probably secondary to the whole wider experience of living away from home, meeting a range of people, widening your overall outlook and the whole social side of it, which you may not get from an apprenticeship.

Of course in those days there were no fees and many people got a grant so perhaps university was a more acceptable luxury than it is today when people are looking for a measurable 'return on their investment', which in some ways I find rather sad. :(
Interesting thought. It certainly was a good lesson in ebing away from home etc. However, the thought that university becomes less about the degree and more about the social side makes any argument for the abolishment of fees a little weak! Please Mr Taxpayer pay for my son to go and get p****ed for 3 years and learn to stick a pizza in an oven! I'm being flippant of course.
I think life skills are hugely important,but actually this is not sacrificed by being an apprentice. One might say that they join 'the real world' earlier and in a more realistic way. Joining at 18 (or 16), they will be in a habit of daily back and forth to work and fending for themselves by 19. Many students live at home through all thier holidays and often afterwards for ages, so they are not truly independent, wqhereas an apprentice might have the collatoral to move out and rent way before then. And socially the mix they will be with is far more reflective of real life (because they are in the workplace) than the 'grown up school' that uni can be.
No objections to Uni whatsoever, but far from losing something in going for an apprenticeship instead, I think there is much to be gained. IF it suits the pupil's career aspirations of course.
Surferfish
Posts: 682
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:06 pm

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by Surferfish »

Yamin151 wrote:Interesting thought. It certainly was a good lesson in ebing away from home etc. However, the thought that university becomes less about the degree and more about the social side makes any argument for the abolishment of fees a little weak! Please Mr Taxpayer pay for my son to go and get p****ed for 3 years and learn to stick a pizza in an oven! I'm being flippant of course.
I think life skills are hugely important,but actually this is not sacrificed by being an apprentice. One might say that they join 'the real world' earlier and in a more realistic way. Joining at 18 (or 16), they will be in a habit of daily back and forth to work and fending for themselves by 19. Many students live at home through all thier holidays and often afterwards for ages, so they are not truly independent, wqhereas an apprentice might have the collatoral to move out and rent way before then. And socially the mix they will be with is far more reflective of real life (because they are in the workplace) than the 'grown up school' that uni can be.
No objections to Uni whatsoever, but far from losing something in going for an apprenticeship instead, I think there is much to be gained. IF it suits the pupil's career aspirations of course.
All fair points, particularly the beer and pizza comment! :D

The only thing I would question is, is 'joining the real world earlier' really such a desirable thing? :?
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: Apprenticeship v university

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Yes...if it is balanced against studying for 3 or 4 years to come out in debt and still no further forward in the job market. The reality is that the majority of graduates still leave university and find themselves unemployed 12-18 months later, or employed in a job completely unrelated to their degree, including jobs which they did not need a degree for. (Now this may also be due to the gradual watering down of degrees over the years, whilst government decided that University had to be for everyone, and the general eradication of specialist vocational colleges that didn't offer degree level qualifications, granted....)

If the degree of choice is vocational - ie HAS to be done as it is the only route into a career, or vocationally biased - ie is good to do to give yourself the best chance of succeeding in a particular career, or is passion related (and finance is not too much of a barrier) then university may well be right for an individual. But more and more, discerning students are realising that they are not necessarily value for money - after all, an apprenticeship gives you qualifications, money (which allows you to go out and socialise, if that's your thing) and quite often opportunities to live away from home at a young age (for example some aircraft engineering apprenticeships require students to live down near Heathrow etc).

The tide will change in some form...universities are already making more unconditional offers than they have done since the late 1980s, on harder to fill courses in an attempt to "win" a student fees....

edited for spelling errors!
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